And I just have to do a thing at the start. So, how do you want me to call you? Like I was in, I was in Chris and Denise. Chris and Denise. Okay, so this is Kate, Jennifer, recording Chris and Denise on February the 19th at the house on Bachelors Street. Okay, so Chris and Denise, let’s start from the beginning. Who are you? Where were you born? That kind of gives us the back history history of you. You’ve got this. I’m Chris Warded. I was born down Watson Street in 1962. A fisherman family and Bamids, my mum. Grandad was a fisherman, that’s old community, I know. When Watson Street got pulled down, more to Greatfield, but that didn’t last long, they went to the back on Road. So, about five year old rode back onto the road when they built the Mason X. And then from then, I’ve lived the rest of life on as a road. Have you got brothers or sisters? I’ve got a brother, I was a fisherman and I’ve got a younger sister. And what did you do for, so what have you done for your work in life? When I left school, I started work at Rosent. I worked there till I had my children. And from Rosent’s, I went to Fish House. And from the Fish House to a battle of manufacturers. Doing what? We’re also a provider for the drive out, load everything, everything in the work, and now I’m wet with NHS in the stores. So that’s only four jobs I’ve ever had. The Vlogon years. Very good. Never go until the Vlog, like, we’ll get Rosent’s clothes down, didn’t it? That was that job gone. Express clothes down, that was that job gone. River Indus was closed down, that was that job gone. Now what money left with, it’s hospital, I don’t think that’s hospital. Well, don’t know yet. Never go. You don’t want to see NHS with clothes down here? Excellent. But then, underneath MedCar, I was born on Ethel Road, I was on Eden Street, 13th of the 10th of 53. And my dad was a boilermaerke on the docks. My mum worked at Smith and Fjord’s. I got one brother, Ian, he’s a boilermaerke. I’ve worked at Rosent’s show factory. Where’s your neck, mate? Yeah, I’ve worked at Sculptons, Sculptons’ Bakery, Sculptons in the shops, fish houses, by meading. I’ve also worked, I think that’s about it. Oh, I’ve been working care rooms and now I’m on my own business at Kathy. That’s about it, really. Can you tell us more about the cafe? We got the cafe, when did she continue it, I mean, I got the cafe because I used to work at Sculptons and in the cafe, I used to manage the cafe at Sculptons and I decided to do it for myself. And we just set it up and we’re in there 25 years now. Well, it was, we got it. When the fish have been money come from, we had a bit of money and I said, “Well, just go by yourself. Let’s just try and start some ourselves.” So don’t waste me dad’s money. That’s what we did want to and it started. It started the business off because it decided to spread out and just, if you don’t try, you don’t know do you? Same as all of us, we didn’t know what we’d work on together like we said, it was the year. So tell me about that, how you to, tell me about you two. How were my? Well, my name was Rosent’s. Rosent’s show. Rosent’s show factory and she won’t go there, mate. I don’t like it because she really is good. I used to go out with a friend, my friend Debbie. We used to go out like at night’s hour and that and she said to me one day, Debbie said, “We’re going out on Saturday, but Chrissie’s coming.” So that went out there. So she said, “Dang, why’d you start, right?” Thanks, laughs. I went out and I was actually a lesbian. Anyway, she taught me in to go. She said, “Oh, we’ll just go, go start a few drinks.” Vauxhall. So Vauxhall and that, and then we were laboring, we got a nightclub in. I said, “Oh, okay then.” And we just sort of got friends, didn’t we, from then? Never when I was just friends. I was just friends. Men’s for ages. I never even would come out and I never would tell anyone that I was there. Everybody knew I was. Everybody knew I was. Everybody knew I was. Everybody knew what I was. Everybody knew who she was. Then went in, in, in, in, I went, “I don’t know, I’ll buy your drinks because I drink and I drink, perhaps.” And that was, like, like, brought the ice with us. And then we just got real good friends, didn’t we? Yeah. My partner, and he was a booed. We all phosas got together. And they didn’t want to think about it, did they? It wasn’t cursed, they wanted it. When we all, we all just got out, she got cancer. They had 23 moments. And she was all that stood back. Really, it was when we all were tan. And what’s happened to me, little boy, he was on the way of throwing our palms and being like, “Well, Kesta got cancer.” Said, “Both of them really, on the edge together.” And she took Richard from me. And from there, we just grew with us. It was just the friendship that grew into more love then. Anything. It wasn’t planned to do it, or just get up what you’re falling in love with. And we’ve just been together ever since, aren’t we? We’ve had a rough road, but we’ve also had a good time. We’ve had a great life. I wouldn’t change it, it would never change it. We have had a fantastic life, aren’t we? We’ve never seen our brains up. We’ve done tall jobs each to bring them up to keep them. And they’re all grown up left now, aren’t they? But kids are the round with the right hand. We had June from the 20th to the 30th. -Mason. -Well, and a dog. [LAUGHTER] -I’m special dog. [LAUGHTER] -So do you want to, I guess I’m interested to know about your lives in your jobs, but also as gay women, maybe you don’t, I don’t know how you even would call yourself. So whether you know, like, how did that experience have been? -Lossums was quite a few gay women, weren’t they? -Yeah. -But there was a lot younger than us. And the wooden really… -Accepts us when we come out, you know, and when the phone up was delivered, there was a real weary of letting us in. We did get there, but then we didn’t like what they were doing. -And what was that? -That was, they’d all be together, but they’d all swap. And it was a notch on the headboard, and it was so like that we wasn’t interested into that. -What’s that? -When would this be? What year would this be? -What was famous? Most of them were dispersed. -This has to be ’80s. -80s? -It’s an ’80s, isn’t it? -It’s an ’80s. -It’s an ’80s. -It’s an ’80s. -It’s an ’80s. -It’s an ’80s. -It’s an ’80s. -It’s an ’80s. -They had that, they opened the scene down. -Yeah. -But when we went… -What was straight? It was like a centre where all the lesbian women used to go and make it. -Do you remember what it was called? -I can’t remember it. -I can’t remember it. I know these like the last is from Rosanne’s, Donna, Michelle, all that, what they took us didn’t they? And it was just a big girl. Don’t want to straight back. I can’t remember what it was called it. And we went the wrong straight way, and that’s when your said was, well when the word was, when you’ve had enough pass around, that’s it. -We must have… -We must have not turned around, we’re in. -We were both… -We were both boys mum. -You know, it was… -And a… -Gary and… -Sure. -Gary and Shounya. -Gary and Shounya. It was mostly all the gay men that we was real, and everyone knew us from that time, and we felt better with them. Like, so we tried it when we were not really able. -Even now we were real. -The way everybody calls us, we’re in my Shanna, the way you’re Shanna. -And where you always Shanna? Yeah, it was different than with the girls. They had to take their own… -The wrong thing wasn’t like together. The ones together, but the ones together, it was more like the boys, it was more promiscuous, you know, they were just trying. And it didn’t matter all the air, what we would say on the way. You know, all the upset. So we backed away from it. We didn’t want that with us. We didn’t know how wrong we’d be… We had friends, and we didn’t want to start messing things up. Plus we had four kids. -So… -It’s a winner. -But we had… It was a few of them, Mandy and I, you know, that lot. We all started doing parties. -Yeah, Linda and… -Linda, Debbie. -A lot of them, we did… -We were in there. -I would have ones with us, we were in there and we were in there in Lisa, wasn’t we? -Yeah. -We had quite a few of us, but all like when we got into it, we enjoyed when we got it. Well, it was before that, you know, when Clarissa did it. -Yeah. -Before that. You got to know the only ones, what was more like on our level, you know? Know what our principles was of not to mess about and don’t… -The best program was Roxo with Frank, Frank Kian’s and Karen. -Yeah, that was lit. -It all started, though, in George, didn’t it? -That was the best of all, I’ve never ever gotten that back. -Because you weren’t from George when George finished. If we were to Dallas and Michael and Paul, back before Frank got Roxo. -Yeah, I know, but I’m saying… -That was the best of all. -Yeah, but when we were left George, then we were to Michael and Paul, there was two gay lads, one Dallas and Port Street. So a lot of us all started going in there because it was trying to find another… -From… -Another room, what we say, another room, where we was all in the room, we was all in the room, all rights and everything. You know, no trouble, and we all take each other as what we had. No matter who you was, no discrimination, just be who you are. And then Frank got Roxo, then we all moved to Roxo. Then one’s Roxo went, then we never really found anywhere else. -No, no, we hadn’t had a really proper room since then. Well, we went to Monroe’s and that, didn’t we? -That whatever, then it’s all young, again, and it’s… -So young. -And it isn’t the same, this was from 49, the idea of opening 49 was, through all the ones that didn’t want all these smart machines and blaring music. So we could all just sit and reminisce, which we do all the time, we do just reminisce, don’t we, and go for old times. But even that went off. So we haven’t really got anywhere we can go now, let we use some. And what was it about those places that you call home? -Because you was… -Because you could walk in by yourself if you weren’t comfortable, you could walk in and there’d always be someone there, and you’d always welcome… -There was no trouble, there was always… -As soon as watching the drink was on the bar, or they’d get angry at that. -I was always telling you to watch it back. -And why were these particular places so different from, say, another pub, a standard pub, or a standard club? -Well, they all put us grey, friendly, didn’t they? But really, it was more of it is. But then it was said to be gay, friendly, you know, we all started coming out. And we just found that we all called, like we said, 16 of us in a group. And we’d go every night, six more night. -Mm-hmm. -And every weekend, none of us went up, it was always a party at someone’s house, we all took it inside. The thing that put us out there was all sad and all banister. We were as well, just all of us were down the banister, and the kids with us, when we were coming out of bounds, it was to join in with it. It’s… And that’s when we really did it when it got an eye-cubbing around, didn’t we? -Yeah. -It was always back to our… -It’s got to everybody. -Oh, everyone took turns every week. So we had a party back at someone’s… At one of our home, it says… And it was the last night of our weekend, Friday and Saturday night, Sunday night, we got knocked on Monday until we got a phone call. I’m a play-in. And then we sometimes would be on a month, but every night was always the first to that phone when you know you was going to get, “I’m a play-in.” Yeah, we was all play-in. -We were all about phones, I knew. -So you just went with a phone to ring. -[laughs] -And, um, so who would be in that group of 16? -That was… -Really? -And what were they… Was it a mixture of… -Yeah, it was… -Oh, it was… -It was Rob and Anne. -Rob and Anne’s right. -Capp and Sony’s right. -Yeah. -And… -Ray. -Ray. -Ray. -Linda, Lisa. -Linda, Lisa. -Linda, Linda and Debbie. -Linda and Debbie. -Paul and Michael. -So lots of different relationships. -Yeah, yeah, yeah. -We’ll have that. -All of a similar rate? -Yeah. -Well, then… No, the… Yeah, but what that looks different is what’s the… -I think… -Cath. -Cath and Sony was the oldest, won’t they? -Yeah. -And they’re so rich from them, too. -Tally, cause in the old fairies… -Yeah. -…for, you know, Brian. It was Brian. Brian was the youngest then, won’t he? -Yeah. -So he went to school with Neil. That’s funny. And… What else was there? -And everybody was from HU this area. -Oh, oh, from… -…has a role in… -Oh, well, oh, well, that was… -…yeah, yeah. -Yeah. -Yeah. -It’s like the random mob there was probably a road, won’t we? -Yeah. -But yeah, we just all… We just… We just did a real good bunch, aren’t we? -What was that? -We went on a lot. -I’m in Rob. -Claire and the cow. -Yes or no? -They started coming with us. -So they started bringing the generation. -Yeah. -So the kids was going as well, it’s… -So this was an incredibly tolerant bunch of people who were maybe also gay or not tolerated or were they out? -Oh, yeah. -Oh, yeah. -Everyone was out. -Yeah. -Yeah. -Everyone was out and the strike was… That was it. And that sounded… You had to do a plug. We’re not all this together. Like I said, what could I have fun? And I was never knowing why I’m in it. It didn’t make an effort for difference. What I think I was doing, I mean, we’ve done all sorts of something. It’s… I know it’s said that. The lads had pulled… You’d be able to live a photo and pull your top off. And something that would be right there to the pictures. So you’ve got everything on your now. And all you do is stand laughing about it. If I brought up with that to a woman now, what would it be? -Yeah. -It’s a totally different story, isn’t it? The lads have just stood there and just thought they’ve got photos of Red and something to do to him. But you couldn’t show them. You know, it’s… Well, then it was just our fun, weren’t it? Our games. -And so, Tack, can you tell me about… So you were openly gay or you knew you were gay? -I knew I was gay. I knew I was gay. -Okay. And in work, that was a problem. Was that… No, because I never… Like you said it was, it was an old didn’t they? Everyone seemed to know. Like they never said no. It was never spoken out. You’re used to denying everybody new. -Mom, you also would never say it. -Oh, yeah. -And if I brought a gene, I managed to make sure they got caught in the ring. You know, and turns, I couldn’t keep genes and all that I am. But it was never said to me. You know, it was never spoken about. -Why do you think it was never spoken about? -I don’t know, because my mum went to life with this. She went to enjoy, she went to the rainers. She went to… She knew them all. She was going to trips with them. But it’s almost out come out. No. I didn’t want to know them. And yet you’re taller than it all. -An older generation of… You mean she tolerated… -No, like, we’re just coming out of our house. When I was eight years old, you told me eight years old and it never went all oddies with them and doing everything else for them. You wouldn’t have believed it. But here we are. For me, I’m coming to sit and playing cards with all the albums in our house. It’d be Mum’s house. -And your mum was the bar mat? -Was the bar mat, yeah? -At. -Rainers, cheese, George. All the likes of the bar mat cry. He was the white collar lover. But more time with Clarice. At Vauxhall, George and Rainers. -Can you tell us then about Clarice? I mean, this sounds to me like a person who was your mum, this is. That worked in spaces that were historically known to be gay-friendly spaces. -Yeah, like, such a wet solar. Remember, no more. But it’s over here with welcoming that rose. Greenum, all of them. She got on with all of them. And the last, we had the last, we had the last with them as well. And George saw, I’d deal with the part of it with the fisherman. Like, we’d do such a little picture. There was Janet and Sheila. There was Janet, my mum and Sheila, who was working in the back room. We were in the zippy-dippy-dippy-dick. That was the names. That was the names of the bar. That was their room, the broom. And that was it, yippy-dippy-dicker in there. And it’s all what I remember from being a bae. I started glass collecting in there and I was 13. For Clarice. It was to go with me, mum. Come on, mum, mum. And can you tell us something about Clarice? She could… Everyone thought she was a twat, but she won’t. She had an eye. You know, she really had an eye. And if you got… If you was in with Clarice, you wouldn’t have to jump. She looked after you. And you looked after your wife. If she didn’t like, yeah. You knew about it. You’ve seen it up in the time when… You used to sit in the corner, right? Here, we’re ready to go. She wore it off next time, bangs. She was in it. And so was the bam, it all stood ready with the bushes. And you used to get banged on with the gedron. If you worked in the poem and she wanted you to start her hair table, you would start… You had to sit there. You’d work and she’d go up. And you’d start there. You’d have no choice. But, yeah. She looked after you if she liked you. If she didn’t like it, then… And just kept away. Amazing. But she was a pillow of Esselbro, I don’t know. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it definitely was. That’s it. Me, say it to you. You want some one, eh? Come on, wear it for me. 50-50, you’re not. For me. Was it 50 to be your night? I can’t remember. No, no, but you give me one, eh? So, going back to your mum. So, your mum was part of this… Life, you were part of this pub-working-class life. Um… Do you remember as a child everybody just mixing together? You know, like, fishermen, Clarison, her mum? Yeah, my dad. My dad also always, well, we’ve all been lesbians. My dad was a fisherman. And, like I said, two or one, I don’t like… Children’s no any more of life. Do you never… Is they… They all know me dad. And my dad was sitting doing for them. Mm-hmm. Well, I was only 17 when my dad died. But I remember them being there, and I just remember me being there as well. So, even then it was… It was certain people tolerated and people didn’t. It was… And that’s it, that’s what. But I was brought up like, to accept anything. So it was the prostitute’s. There was… There was welcome. There was in our house. It was… I think that was part of as a word. That was the community that everyone just looked after each other. Why do you think that is? I don’t know, because that’s all I can remember. It was like… It was me, Dan, my brother, me and Claire, and he, like, lived with us. But to come on, we’re fixed. The kids, the first, he was getting it for now then. Just to put it in the garage, and if the garage don’t want from the side, and everyone wants it, you just go along with yourself. So I always make sure that someone had food. And it was the same as someone had someone, and they’d want to say, “Come on, I’ll take you for a plan.” And if you don’t want it, I’ll take care of it. And I’ll take care of it when it was a payback all the time. If you had it, you’d give it. And it had to go along like that. It’s just all that stuff. I’ll wait, it was brought up, like that, until it says, “If someone didn’t have something, look after him.” And that’s all going now, we need no one. Does anyone like that now, do they? It’s different. But that’s just how we was brought up. If someone didn’t have no, it was a telephone coming out of his tank. No, it was just a little bit. It may not be a lot, but it’s there. It’s… Do you remember that? No, I’ll never play that. No, she’s had the different things. I had a different opinion. I had the things that I wanted. I went with fishermen. And that was a very good job. He was a boilermaker on the docks. And the man was like, “It’s my friend, I feel awesome.” No, I went and brought up. I was like, so a bit posh really to them. But she says, “We was dragged up.” For one, I don’t know. I don’t know. It was part of me, that was on for maybe 24 hours. I need to take a time to jump the next day. But if it was a party, it was a party at the house. And that stuff would go up. And do you remember, as a child or as a teenager thinking, do you remember seeing, have you got… I guess your experience was different, but do you remember anything to do with this community or in that way? Or were you… Not as a child. As I got older, and when I went to Rosam’s, I was friends with them all, and I think I was married. And then… I said, “Just in my head.” That’s when you start getting up when you’re just coming to the room. You know what I say, right? There’s some sort of shit. Never put… Never put… A pendant come home and mow them in the morning. Because all the fishing went… It was… It’s a… It’s a party… It’s a party, it’s a party, it’s a party, it’s a party, you know. You never paid for an hour. And if you went in… Rainers or a day’s sleep, one of you just didn’t… Because I know it was part of the fishing. It was just an hour. Amazing. And then it was like mabber. And then it was… That’s before it opened, you know, Patrick… I don’t know. Well, it’s… It’s something that happened to me to see we never found out about Jeff Butler. The ship had come home and remember working in and what state was in that day, weren’t we? Yeah. Never got out. Because I would pack with a cut as wrist and put his hands in not fat and everything. And they couldn’t do enough and they were trying to find out what had happened on that. But that’s when it started today, you know, in the fishing things went… Yeah, just the great times on the road. And I mean the tip, I go back to where… You have to get attacks from rock saw to… To Alex. And the taps were waiting outside, yeah? Yeah. Vauxhall to Alex. Attaxing. Oh, I’ve done that, but… With the fishing and not… I won’t get it, though. I won’t get it on the air. (LAUGHTER) So, I’m intrigued about this. We’d still go back to your mum. What was it that you were going to say about your mum about… She was tolerant and all of this was happening and that you were brought up to be very tolerant and accepting and generous. But you were saying something about when you came out. She didn’t like it all the time. She tried to the web as in to split her up. Yeah, she even reported as the social services, didn’t she? She kept the kids took off as… So she only came to understand you as gay when you two got together. Yeah, because I was great when I was a whole friend with what went before we got together. It was great, like, someone when I was in hospital with Kirsty and that young mum, mum, you would start the band, you’d then bring them to a nice pickle mop and have them on a night and… It was great until you found out we’d actually got together. Then she couldn’t accept it. What do you think the story was about that? I’ll never ever know. She did come round us with dying, didn’t she? She did accept us when she was dying because she was like, “I’ll walk in six months.” But when she was dying, she looked at her and she smiled and said, “Yeah, you have it, you’ve made it.” Maybe that’s what she thought. Maybe that’s because she’d seen that many of that did split up and it was all just a game. And she thought that’s what was going to be. She thought, “I’m not going to get out. I’ll never know because she never would talk about it.” Maybe that was there where I was thinking, “No, you’re going to end up getting out of this.” And also maybe it was difficult. She’d seen… Yeah, it was difficult to get so wet. Best not to do it and just… Do you think… I don’t want to put words in your mouth. But was there a… Do you feel like it was a judgement or do you think it was more to do with looking after you not getting hurt? No, I don’t ask. I think it was the other way around because she was to look after her. She practically lived to air hours all the time. So she’d lost it? She didn’t like me because I took air off her. It’s a… I think it’s a bit above. So, hopefully, I think it was a bit above. Like I said, she’d seen it all. She’d been there and done it all the way around. She’d seen what goes on and she didn’t want me in it. Erm… and then, like I said, down the other part, she always was with me. Hours always with her. I said, “Because I know I was gay, but I just kept saying I was always with my mum.” You’d seen me about… I was always by myself. And then, she said, “Well, Jacob, I’ve got a box on, so it’s like we’re in a box all over the men. Play dads, down the nose. Work with Ron Bam myself. Goin’ every club Bam myself.” Why was that, do you think? I didn’t know it was because I know what I was and there was no way of… There was no effort for me to go at 16 year old and to be what I wanted to be or say what I wanted to be. So I just kept myself with… It was always with all the men, weren’t it? Never. And then it was with women, was I? It was the same crowder men. Oh, the same thing, but they looked after me. The same as what I was… There were friends of me, my mum and dad’s as well. And… I was just brought up with them, so I just kept with them. And I was quite happy with that. And then I could still walk into every pub. I wouldn’t be by myself. You might wear a round, set a box on, little nip-y, in-k, then a cry. Strictly was he, ran us, ended up back in Kinsesha. Amazing. And why, and I guess the tellers your version of your experience is different. Very different. Of what? Yeah, this was your early life, wasn’t it? I thought you were mad, this was your early life, tellers about your early life. I was just a normal girl growing up and going out and enjoying myself. I had boyfriends, I was married. I just know, just don’t know anything until I’m mad. Took about the last night. But like I said, I was friends before years, what was it three years before we even thought about? I didn’t even have my kids when we had first started going out. And it was just what happened. And so, it’s happened, you were together. And I guess I’m interested to know, as a couple, how it was for you on this area, and maybe what you did, you know, like your social life. It was going out alright. It was just got, like I said, when there was the girl that we were back with. When in the first, he was just stopping me and you wouldn’t wait. When you could get away from Tony, then she’d come to my house and like me, when I was born, was it weird? And then like I said, they would start going in, “George, didn’t we?” Yeah. That’s where I was. And I also, I thought you told your girl where you were at, that record, what was the record. What is it? Remember getting a little bit away. Young girl, young girl. And I never said, “Just leave me alone, you’re so young.” Because I’m like 10 years old, and I know. But no. But yeah, then we started going in like in George. And well, before that, I was already going in Reanas. And like I said before, I was even, I was going in Reanas. I was like, “I was just from Rosam’s and all that.” Yeah. Didn’t I? We just named Sarah. And we just used to sort of… Well, it’s weird when we started going in George, one of that, it started to come then, then we started getting to know more. The same results, and that’s when we started to build up like crowds of us. Well, we’d also write, “That’s it, we’re all out.” And it went from there. Until we were left and then said, “Then we all made dalas.” And then when Moxall off, and then that, that was it. So we just bombarded, we all just lived and danced. So can you tell us about Moxall? I really miss my name. Moxall. You all get another play site, Moxall. It’s the different ways in it. Reanas, George was because you had the drag shows and all that, and Reanas did all that. Well, before that, it was even the drag show. And then, when Kari said it wanted, when Reanas was to go on. And Kari just put the drag shows on, didn’t she? So that was what bought Moxall. It was just me. I don’t know, it was like someone put in a rank, hit wrong when you won it in Moxall. Frankie and Kevin. You walked in, it was like someone just said, “Right, you’re here, you’re home.” And that’s how we all felt in there. And that pub, you’ll never get another pub like it. Kevin was an amazing landlord, anyway. Yeah, the old was Kevin and Frank. I said it was, Kevin was amazing landlord, he was my favourite, Kevin. Why? I don’t know, I just sort of got on with him from day one, we was always together with him in one way. Even when you left the pub, I still met him and we went out for drinks, and I used to meet him in town. He was always, we still is. He was my favourite. I love Frankie, I love Steve, but Kevin’s always made me favourite. But the work, like I said, they just made you so wealthy when you was involved with everything with them. But then again saying that, it’s okay. Moxall was always making that kind of pub, because even when you’re a mess, you’ve had it. And that, that sort of got on with him, didn’t you? I don’t like that, was it? Not like, oh yeah. No, he still had him go, he still had the gears going on. Well, I didn’t use to go in it then, did I? I only went in it when I met him. So it was a safe game, safe? Is that for you? Yeah, I always say it, always. And gay friendly? Yeah. Or everybody was in that pub. Everybody was in that pub. When they had it, everybody was in that pub. It was only when, when they took it, when they used to make it, they banned lesbians, didn’t it? It was only the men. Yeah, that was… That’s how good it is, because we didn’t have a lot of what he didn’t have a name, man. He banned lesbians, because… It was just a man. It was a whole man in the men, into a back room, and all that lot in the back, and it got seeding. I can’t remember his name. And so if we went in with Sarah somewhere, so he wasn’t really welcome in that respect, you know. So that’s the man thing that’s always gone on with the men’s ones. That’s how they are, well… But yeah, that was definitely the box, that was definitely the one that got more of us and were together. And can you remember any of the stories, tell me some stories about nights or what you asked you so wrong. And that you’d be like, “It’s going into the morning.” It’s just like the doors and get… Just come out of there, five o’clock in the morning, and be aware of the server. Well, walking up and around the bottom, I’ll go and say, “We’re just going to work.” Everywhere… I can’t think of that many things in that little dumb-ass pin. Well, we had some great patterns in the mirror, didn’t we? Yeah, well… Well, yeah. I can’t really put my finger on out because it was just a laugh I’m walking in. Because no matter what someone do it, I mean, me and Rose got in the finger, go there, and I came from work at 10 o’clock, and the buff right down there was a 1, 10 pound buff fell off the end of the bar. One night I felt me and Rose laid on the floor, buff all glasses, brock. And buffed the layer at the end of the bar. Rose got in the fur, oh, oh, oh. But, yes. We’re just supposed to get rasped. Oh, just sit in there, not for… Just wear a lot of construction in there, didn’t we? Yeah. In-box, and all. That was enough. That was enough. Well, did you get married? That’s 17 years ago, isn’t it? 17 years ago, that’s my work. Yeah. Got married on all 20 years… We’re 20 years together, so it’ll be 17 years. And that was an old day, won’t it? Yeah. From morning till the next morning. And it would just stop on pub. It wasn’t just the doors open and anyone was welcome. And that’s how it was all day and all night. It was evening, wasn’t it, all day. Old day, all night. About four or five in the next morning. And then we were… And then, I already mowed. Then it was six of them coming, was it in the croals? Yeah. So I was going to win, I was going to hang, come in and hang, come in. Right? All right then. (LAUGHS) Good. So there’s something about, I wanted to ask, which was, Clarice at the George, and you said about putting on acts even before… Was that a bin axe? Would that have been Ray? It was Ray, yes, great. And other acts. Yeah, Ray. And then, she was a dream girl, didn’t she? Yeah, she was a dream girl. But it was the other dream girls, not. And, almost in that whole month, you used to come on, but no. No, it was Ray that I didn’t. No, Clarice did as well. It was always drunk. He used to turn up drunk. (SIGHS) I’d have to tell you, I kept the real names. Yeah, and Twaddles. Twaddles. Twaddles? I knew it was a dress, Twaddles and Grader. It was a fairie. It got there as a sugar plum fairy. But that got back to what… So, when it went away from the stage. Yeah, but that, yeah. But the sugar plum fairy was in box on the swing one, when it went from the ceiling. Yeah, but you did it in George’s. Well, I didn’t know that’s when it fell from the stage, because she had, like, two faces. And he came in the middle. And she kicked him out in shape. They fell from the stage, get out now. That’s it. She chucked him out in the very… in the street in a fairy outfit. With a wand and he was walking on the horse. (LAUGHS) That was clarifying. Somewhere there’s all the photos of us all, sat in there in… I had to stop the work. I put them away somewhere, and I asked them to add them in a box in the shed. Well, I can’t. Well, I can’t. But… So was… So was this also a place that had… acts on pre-that, you know, like the hip before? I guess I was… No, ’cause it was like… I was taught like roof and the road ends. You know, there was the ones then, ‘Cause there were some greener’s. You had mixed years of acts on. So tell us about roof and the… roof and the roof. Oh, roof. Great. That goes back, like, so that goes back a lot, a lot of years to roof and the road ends in greener’s. So it’s like seeing that’s going back 50 years from me. She had around pubs at one point, didn’t she? She had steam towels, didn’t she? Yeah. Well, that would be rude. And then she went to… one on Beverly Road. So imagine… Yeah, we’re imagining nobody knows who this is. So tell us about roof, who was roof. She was a singer, won’t she? Yeah. But she was also a lesbian. And… But roof stood out, didn’t she? The same was like, “Well, say, ask and out.” Was always in the denouement. So it was the old type of lesbian, but kept herself to herself. You know, what a fantastic singer. He was to get everyone up to three cigarettes in the ass. Yeah, wonderful, right, shouldn’t she? Erm… But that’s us as being younger, isn’t it? Like, I’d say that’s going back to me. That’s going back 50 years from me. From first, you know. Erm… It was all country and western. That was it. But she know to get all the popcorn. Erm… Again, Rick can tell you more because he worked with him, you know. But you have a memory. Oh, I’ve got the memories of him, yeah. What’s some of it? You know, the laws that’ll come back when you sit in the sink of it. Erm… Like I said, it encourages you to do all the trips from George to lead to know who you are. To lead to know who you are, you know, that lot to the gay clubs. We’ve all been on a… That was the… It was, right, St George is going… … …and he’s going to go to the bottom of the box. I bought the box. Debbie Fairmed in front of me. Well, that’s how we knew it. And then we all… We had got a ball and got everyone’s knickers off. Gone down the bus and actually cut the knickers off and strapped them from where they were. And I went off like a little knickers. And it took me a long knickers off. And that was only about 17, then. Erm… I was doing this year. Red and yellow and pink. It was all knickers off the bus. She still goes out. She still goes out. And it was all good, you know, playing. Right, all the dreamers, the drinking competition gets all in the line. You have to do fast. The things you also don’t think of. So tell us about the new penny. I was on the other side, but that was the game. All I can remember is this pub opposite where we did this drinking competition. Then you went across to the new penny. And it was a big night club. And it was all gazin’ there. That’s why I was chucked. Clavas took the bus. It’s a word. Erm… Like I said, I can remember all that sticks out that night as my man will give you. Clavas give me man these poppers. And I’m thinking what? Why are you doing that? Remember that one the toilet? No, totally blown. It was the same. And everyone was wondering… Yeah. The other one was wondering, “How to be mamma in a pram?” Well, the biggie for me, “Mam.” And I took my mamma and I shot all the mess and eggs. Chris, do you want a pram for Ray? And I took a roman of pram. You walked around, sat on the door, so I didn’t know I’d been in every room. Do you think this… Do you think this is… Was this kind of way of being common on Hezel Road? Or was this a particular thing with that community and that set of pubs? It was just as a road. It was Hezel Road. Hezel Road still like it. Now it’s Hezel Road, Hezel Road. Going Ray and Asm meets anybody and everybody who sees each other around in there. The old soul of the Earth. The old… The old Catholic duvet. We liked each other at the same time. The company knocking each other, sudden rolls of shit out of each other at one minute. And next, they’re only a pat. It’s always been like that Ray and Asm. Always. They never changed. They still like it now. It’s just… It’s just what changed Ray and Asm will it? It’s still like everyone knows. All seems to come back, don’t like… No matter where the girls, they all sort of come back to Asm Road. We’ve got… I know this is pretty good off the… We go to the Villa Press and we still do the reunions. For them. And we book Ray and Asm is sad to be able to put it. We’re all coming home. We did it in town at Christmas. No, so we have to walk home home this year. We’re all coming home. And it is all like our Red, Younge and all that. That are still all together. And is it rainers because… Rainers is there any place left, is it? Yeah, it is really not. Yeah, it really is. But Rayers is still like the soul. They… It’s still got the people in it. And it’s the people I count. It just hasn’t changed. It’s still the same category. How can you see all the rain in Rayers? It’s just never changed. It’s rainers and that’s it. You expect to go in there and if you don’t see a fight there’s something wrong. That’s so wrong. On the duck fight out, the agile duck, like… I mean, yeah. But when we were going, it was a bit of a fight. We said, “Which windy going through that one last night?” And they were supporting all the windows. And they said, “The band made it just as we stood there with the ad, but she’d read it as a witting on the egg when it started and she’ll hold. Ray had a lot of drag acts on me, didn’t he? Yeah, yeah. Rayers won that, didn’t he? The dog, I said, “Why don’t you?” “You stole a lot of it yourself, didn’t I?” Mmm. And a lot of the time it was in. And Crystal. Yeah, Gavin, well that’s one of the ups from the world. That’s what I mean now. He was the DJ, good, the drag DJ, judge. There isn’t anything. He was lonely, Crystal, wasn’t he? Yeah. He does, he’s Crystal now. I know he’s still a rapper, but I don’t… He’s not living in Lincoln, though. It’s a man. I don’t know. And then when we got the lady bodies, didn’t we? The lady bodies, I didn’t think. I was a girl on the go. That’s why we called it lady bodies, because she was the only one, the rest was all the men, but she was the lady. And so what was the lady boys? Adraksha? We got a picture of her. Isn’t it, it was her own, eh? It was, it was just like two nights, one for three hours, and I wanted to do it. I’d go, “We can be an asshole.” Yeah. Ryan, he was there, “Come on, we’ll go, we’ll go, we’ll go, we’ll go, sort the choreography hours.” So we were able to go, “Made in Judge, just sing a drink.” And then when the show was on, we just did what I was, took, was to the one that was, “I don’t know what your drag name was.” No. So this was an act of featuring how many people. There was me. Ryan. Ryan. Ryan. Big Les. There’s patio doors, won’t it? Big Les was patio doors. Gavin? Gavin, yeah, but I had, tried to think of all the names of them. I need to put my hand on that. It does, she was a fieldy fudge. [laughs] It’s anyone that could call a little bit of a woman. And so you did this for how long and what did you do? He was just in the show, one year. It was just dressed up as drags. Sure, something else you wanted to dress me up. I thought it was as a man. No, as a woman, but just because she was, the woman, they put away this dress on her one night. And it was so love. It was great. It was great. It was great. It was great. And I still don’t know. And everything fell out. [laughs] The only photos, and then it won’t disturb because there’s one. And these photos, I don’t know how to put them. Me and Meena did wear a couple of swells and I’ve got the photo there. Me and the Tran, and they’re just as the woman. But I don’t know what, what? What? That one when the restroom was a nice bag. Yeah, it took me a nice bag when we were able to do our, you know, the tautanic. Trust me, it was a nice bag. We knew the pocket of eyes, come out and then took to the ice at him. It was all… And then one time we all went on. The nether of character. Yeah, when nether was on the go, it made us so… It made us so… …the way the old someone went on. And then one at one, they don’t. The nether was carrying bags. So we all bought nether’s carrier bags, made us scared, some wastecoats. And when you come on, we all bought some of these plastic carrier bags. Anyway, we’re here bastards. This cost me a photo show, and they did just look like his son was 10 pence. [laughs] It wasn’t even then what’s open, so I’m all right. Is that a penny? [laughs] It was all just for the fun. It was just the fun of doing it on it. ‘Cause they all said like, “Grace, you’ll see a theme, you know, like a musical and do it.” And so they did grease lining, didn’t they, and they said, “Tat, I think.” Yeah. But everyone else would brought into it to make it sure for everyone else. It was… And that was just the fun of doing it. Just use the net thing, though. They turned it, we just do it. I don’t know what I did, let it all. We had them photos all the other day. I don’t come out and I’m aware I put them again. And so when would this be? When was the lady boys? Lady boys. When did that special go on? That’s a bit of a fair snap, Jordan. Yeah. So that’s the one, doesn’t it? Now, you know, you know, you know, you know. I think it lasted a bit, yeah. Well, it lasted more than a year, a little bit. Yeah. Why the old samples? Well, really, well, it started, isn’t it? And so can you remember the cost? I mean, you’ve mentioned Twaddles, you’ve mentioned Ray, you’ve mentioned the DJ, whose name was… Travis Gavin. Do you remember any of the other acts other than the lady boys? Well, we had all the drag acts on. The French one, Etienne. Etienne. The French one. And he was, and he was great. But that’s me and Wayne are doing them. Couple of swirls in one of the shows. Yeah. So tell us what’s in the photo. That’s Wayne out and that’s me doing one of the shows. [LAUGHTER] And what are you dressed? How are you dressed? Well, she had to be the woman. [LAUGHTER] And I had to be the tramp. It was… it just did whatever it is. And where is this? That’s in George. That’s in George with the shows. Linda, we’d all made salts with other outfits, and that’s with Ray. Where’d the do it? Oh, what’s that? That’s Ray. No, that isn’t Ray. This is not Ray. That’s Ray. Yeah, that is Ray. That’s Ray. You’re isn’t. Ray looks like the rest of Tina Turner. Yeah, he does. Yeah. That’s part of the Lady Boys. So who were these people in these photographs? That’s Big Les, patio doors. And there’s a bit out there, but I can’t remember the memes. What the nook up? That’s Ray. That’s Brian. That’s Brian. Alex. No, that’s Alex. Alex. I can’t remember it. Unless. I can’t remember the names of them. And we said about the straight couples. [LAUGHTER] Straight figures. That’s Rob, isn’t it? That’s when we was on holiday. They always picked Marstoff to get dressed up in. Why? They just did. That’s Marstoff. Is everyone back? That’s Marstoff. We took him away anyway, it’s never again with them. I was only with him after that. And he said, “You know, look, say…” And we said, “We’re all of us with…” There’s a lot of loads of Dallas. You know what I said? Brian. That’s Rob. I was Lee. And that’s what we said when you say what we all get, we aren’t bothered what we did. So what was… How do you… I guess if you remember this group of… Well, some of these people are still alive, but was this like a… This was a bunch of friends, but also like a safe family? Yeah. What was I would say a family where we said all of us. Straight, gay, lesbian, whatever. It was just all… We just saw them. And the gay… Let’s say we just play games. We just play games. What I said to you about… We slayed down the banisters. There’s Lisa and Debbie. I mean, that’s me and you’re in the garden, isn’t it? I mean, the dad and party. There’s Gabin. That’s Gabin and that’s his partner. Slayed down the banister every one of us. And if we had one of us did it, we all had to do it. This is you. That’s area. Well, so we’ve been all of it. We’ve done that, so all in Lindos and… That’s really it. Yeah, that’s what we did to him. But where’s the other one? It was that joke. It was the first time we ever went on all of that one. And was in January if we needed to be. We could have all of them cool. And he drank two bottles of brandy and everything in the walls. When he was that drunk, we stuck him under the shower in his soap. So grimob. He lost a fold there, didn’t he? He stayed in bed all day. And he stopped in bed all day. None of us left him. And then he’d come out with Miss America in drag around the pole. This is murder for a tosser. It got up and went… And he had Miss America’s teeth black towel. A rubber dinghy where he had everyone round the old towel in stitches. And we used to take a skeleton away with us. A broken skeleton and a little bit of a collateral he said. Honest to things. But I said that was what we were like every weekend. It was parties. Like I said, I would say a family like the matter what, it was all mixed. So what was unsafe? Where was unsafe? You didn’t go like round town out, did you? Because you know he was heading for trouble. He’d be picked out. And what does that mean? Well, I said it, the men, it was me and I, the men saying, “Come on, you don’t know. You don’t know. You don’t know. I’ll show you what a man has.” He was just threatened to rape you. Just to show you what a man, what they said, know what a real man’s like. I’m Ryan, that’s funny. And me? Yeah, you know what I said? So I would just sit like that with him. But it was not, wouldn’t it? And he’s already a baby, that. I could say it’s the same age as Matt’s on him. But we’ll, we’ll, we’ll follow up with him together. Yeah, don’t do us. I love him as a son, dude. I mean, he’s like Matt’s son. Er, there was just certain places you won’t go. What you can’t go. Like, it was alright in silhouette. You used to go back. I know, I’m snowy, I mean. You’ll be on there. Oh, there was your snowy on it. Er, er, so places like that, Enra’s silhouette. He was alright. But if you went in town or anywhere, you had to be careful. And it, like, is that even on road on it, some sandy street in, er, Andel’s club, you used to have a go. You didn’t, like, it’s… And what, what would be said or done? Well, I said, like, that, like, what, we had it. Well, walking out of the street one night and told you and could sit around, what anyone else? And we said, well, right, don’t work. Go for it. If you can’t do, you’ll come and do it yourself. No, you had to sit the dog on us. And Bashes was walking up and he went, oh, you’re not. And he stepped in between them. Er, it’s just ignorance, you know. It was ignorance on a lot of them, but then again, we’ll say, because they were humans, it had been drilled into them. It’s only what their parents have tell them, and they’re just carried it on, aren’t they? Well, that’s our wheels, we’ll tell you. Like our brains, they’ve got no prejudice because they’ve been brought up with it all. They’ve been, like, kneeling along this grandeur at Rio’s community, yeah, already doing his make when she was calling Rio Dance. That was just their name, like, from being a baby, by Rio Dance. So all our grumbians have been brought up with them as well. So they’ve left with us, how to accept everyone and everything for what they are. And do you remember it being difficult on the road? I know you’ve said deed-strick, but like, if you were in pubs that you didn’t know or… No, we didn’t really, we didn’t know. We had all the sandbox songs up, and it was just in the box, and all that way. Because when we all was able to pop, because when we was with John and Tony, we weren’t able to have partners. So we were like, “Ink, and we’re known.” And other pubs. But then it was before we was out. But when we come out, we kept to where we know we’d be okay. Do you think that was common for everybody? Yeah, yeah. Because, like I said, there’s a few of the lesbians that are out of our age and out of our age. That was the same, but we know them, because everyone would come out. And when it got safe to be able to say, “Yes, I am.” You know, not trying to add it. The same as the men in it, they had to do it. Everything happens to them. I mean, I think the men got you west, didn’t they? Because they did get re-empted and everything, didn’t they? It was just something you had to be careful of. All you said it to all you was with. People pretending to be your friends. We all know you just kept ourselves to ourselves, aren’t we? Yeah. We just… We just have that runway. You’ve kept within your safety. Yeah. We’ve kept within the family. Yeah. Right now, we’ve got a new family, aren’t we? Now, it has, because now we’ve got a lot more younger ones, aren’t we? We’ve got… Yeah. There’s 14 of us again. I like kids winter, 14, 16, I don’t know. But there is now, but now we’ve got… Danny’s only 30, 34. Yeah. And both 33. And Ian and Lee, Lois and… The humans are getting more attached to us. Swemmer growl, they love… So we’ll go with them now. So the humans are attaching on to us, but we let them go there, we’ll set right to go towards… Me and Ray, that’s where the… Where they are. That’s on us. Do they have the numbers that way? We in Ray’s, they all… Human Ray, then, you know… Yeah. Paul and Paul is only in the fort, so it’s… Yeah. Then the… I think Lois is only in 2016, he’s so much. It’s Brian, Brian’s… Brian’s 50. Yeah, Brian’s an excellent 50, Ian. That’s the only way, the rest of the day just goes down. We’ll just seem to collect them as we go along. But we love it. I mean, the thing is that the humans do towards now, what we used to do years ago, they’re doing towards out, like… But again, it’s more like a family. We’re… We’re… We’re… We’re… We’re… To back off for the weekend, didn’t we? Yeah. Well, she got a drum, being changed, she ended up… I was done, even when he chucked her on the back of that couch. Don’t… Pick me up with someone everywhere. The big lads towards. (LAUGHING) She stopped in on the weekends, well, he wouldn’t let her out for all the day. She was drunk, and he picked her up with chucks on her nose and chucked her on the couch. Her boobs come out. So she stuck over the back of the couch, you know? She was drunk, and she was guilty, right? No, no, no, no, no, no, she was in. (LAUGHING) Um, so there’s two things I want to ask. One is… So you were part of… There were other out lesbians in the area, and older lesbians. Yes. And do you remember… Yeah, can you tell us some more about who you remember and what… Well, it’s the main one, to remember, is Isabel McAllister. She was the main one. One. She was the cock, the ad one. And if she was any everywhere, you would see the other lesbians come in, and they would always offer her a role. Oh, no matter what, put your own… What? Men. Men is what you have, but I was saying, the lesbians used to do it, so the cock didn’t like. If you could fight, is it? If you could take it, then you could… But nobody could. Donna did. Donna did. Donna got it, be at me. And… No, Donna did. The second time, Donna did. That time, when there was an rock solo, she went, “Is it after men? She come in and she literally jumped, be at me. And when Donna got in, be at me. I had to have Donna when I was on it. And… No, she didn’t. She did. Well, anyway, what is it was the main one that… Remember, is he asked to have the top one in it? She never enjoyed the algorithm. She never was. She was. She was. I was built up with her, Donna. Yeah, and what you’ve been doing with her and us, she was. She was. So, then… Yeah, sorry. But, yeah, I’ve said that the main one asked to be there. And they said, “And then we didn’t really meet Linda and Debbie while we got in the journey. Did we meet Linda and we got in the same… They were in the same way. Yeah, they’re still there. Yeah, they’re done. It’s still some that’s still there. The families don’t know that the families they know, they’re just friends that live together. But I don’t care what the saying, they say that, but the families must know. The must know. It’s like to say that’s not spoken about when it happens. So… Do you find that difficult to have things not spoken about in that way? No, it’s… It’s just a… Because when we first called the audience, yeah, Mum and Dad did say, and I was like, it was never spoken about, was it? No. And you have a weird river, yeah? No. Oh, my family had it. But you never… you never thought about what you… you never thought about what you were doing with Dad. They just accepted it, didn’t they? Mm-hmm. They were told, and then that was saying we just sort of… Because the room was all going round, around the fishermen, and that’s why it had to come out, because they were spreading rumours, and then… Was it your mum or the other side? Yeah. If I’m care what the sound of that way was on to get one it. And I said to a couple of them, we’ll go around and we’ll go around and we’ll have it out. You know what the team, he said, yeah, he’s right, yeah, he wouldn’t have told you mum it one way or it was together. But my parents was a bit… Don’t… Posh, aren’t they? Don’t do us things. But my dad loved that. I mean, I’d fell in love with you all, didn’t he, round and where? Come on, Chris, I was gonna pop. You think the ones that you thought would go against you, when you obviously were like, “Mam, I’m all new at all,” but you went against… And I’m not done. It’s… I don’t know if it’s really 21 watts. And they said you and your brothers never thought so, aren’t they? But my sister said straight away. I mean, yeah. I’m not generally away. The only time I see our Ian is when… Well, let me mum, dad, at the funeral and I suppose next time, it’ll be when one of us told I will ever want to go. [laughter] But er… Yeah, I don’t know what else is the one we can tell you. Well, I guess if what I’m doing is collecting histories of gay culture on this area and how different it was now to how it was when you first came out, you know, is there… Do you see a difference? It’s a bit different. You’re a lot of them are accepted now. The acceptance is… and like I said, you can do it all pooming now. It’s… like now we can one time out with where we can have with each of us arms and work of our little as ours. Where before you wouldn’t have died. You’re being really drawn out. You’re being really drawn out. [laughter] She takes photos of us. I’ll take photos of the album just turned enough, drunk down the street with the backs of them. But you would never have dared to do that. No, no. No. Like I said, the first time we did do it, that’s when the dog sent it on, it was doing me on as a road in the lot. So then we just started working separate… well, working together, but not there. Show no affection or out. What you can’t… Well, of course, it’s just… I like my son’s place. He’s in town and I don’t know. But like I said, we stick to the pub of what? What we know? What we know. But we’re not supposed to get another child, are we in town? No, we’re not going to get another girl or what, yeah it is. But yeah, when people are drunk, isn’t it? That’s most of when they’re never gone yet. It’s only the other snag remark or… You’re just ignorant, don’t you? It goes over your head. Difficult, though. Well, no, because we don’t find it difficult. No, it’s what you’ve… It’s what we’ve been here with. It’s just a normal night. You’ve just got used to it. And it is a lot better. It’s better now you don’t walk another car slashed and you don’t get up at all the eggs at your windows and… We haven’t got none of that. We’ve had all that. So that’s what the names call it, is what it is. Do you think your experience was unique? No, no, no. They asked me how long I was handing it. I haven’t done it. I haven’t done it. But we’ll never know because like we said, not everyone come out and said it. There was spinsters that lived together that never said that there was. But you said even you’re unzident, yeah, you… When we… Your dad’s a two-day… You were always there to me. I think my dad knew. I think we’d have knew before her annual. And he always used to be, “There will never be a man good enough for you.” You’re like, “You’re out to Mary. There will never be a man good enough for you.” So it’s all skeleton to their cuba. They’re coming up together for years. Me Auntie Mary and me Auntie Bertha. Her sisters, but the one sisters. So you know, it’s something that you just kept it. It was like it was two-hour spinsters that were companions, but the one. It was just that’s the way it was sent to him. And he was always… Oh, yeah. He was just saying that on the dance. All the time. Even when I was carrying my red. He was just saying, “Don’t be a man good enough for you.” And the man just said, “You’re different.” But so I’m glad you said, “You’re different.” But my dad used to always be with him as beings. He was sitting in the pub with him. But yeah, definitely in terms of change, Auntie. We’ve lost the best years, though. We’ve said, “No, we have less than…” We have lost. We’ll never get these back what we’ve had. Because our best years now, like we said, everyone’s dying. The friendship that we had over the last… Well, 40 years. You can’t bring them towns back. You know, there’s when we lived and enjoyed it. We’re getting on our week after we. But the memories that are always going to be with us. And our kids are going to know their members as well, because they were brought in with it. It’s… I don’t know. You just wish you could turn the clock back sometimes, don’t you? And have them town as back. What would you have back? Back to all of it. Just go back to being enjoyed, and voxel, and just having all that fun where once we was all together, knowing the touches, and we were just like all… You see, just like Beyends all together, what could do, what were wrong, Clint wanted, and no one was there to judge us. I mean, we’d do… So, we’d pass in with catwales and… Barrows, barrow races. Just like Beyends again, because we could be ourselves, from that ourselves girl. But we could only do it within that… Crowd, know what we all was. Like I said, you just seen something, what was that? Oh, get dressed up as, you know, each other’s clothes, and just mess about. It was never now, you know, it was just our fun, our space, our time. We’d do it, don’t we, we’d have a dress up there, don’t we? Yeah, it was a lot. It was a lot of those things. Yeah, the West, the West, you could… Shut down, shut down, all like that. But it’s just the elderly, we’re all gonna… We’re all gonna laugh, don’t we? I’m what we are being. A Christmas day. So, we’re all gonna have a Christmas day one day, and then, and then, when, is it women, we go, “Man, you’re making a man.” And we just don’t have things like that. Just what we do. We’ve always done. We’ve always… We just have a good time, don’t we? Just go wearing up a good time. And then, the other thing I wanted to ask you, because nobody’s mentioned it before, but you mentioned it about the poppers. So, there’s something about… Do you… We often think of this area connected a lot to alcohol, so people were drinking a lot, it was wild people were in the pub drinking a lot. So, do you want to go and mend like it was the poppers? Yeah, I know. It was alright, yeah. But do you think… Yeah, I mean, talk, can you talk more about… Some of that. What was happening, say, around that time of… We never use it, because the game, we use it as… What the user thought, and everything. But, erm… We never… That was black pole. Yeah. But then, it pre-tastened. This part is always that poppers be out the bad, you know? I don’t know how that matters, I mean, I suppose, I’m going to… But I guess I’m meaning more. Was there… And you might not want to talk about this, but, you know, the… We think of this area being about drink, but was there also drugs in that scene? What was that history of that? No, I can’t remember drugs, can you help me? Never have I known drugs on this floor, drink, drink. So I’m drinking, drink, drink, drink all of the table. But I can never… And on that, say, like, episode drugs. And I said, it only like about poppers, as the menu seals them. That was it. But I never saw drugs, no. No, you were a drink, on it. Not even a… You never used to wear a wacky back here, aren’t you? Yeah. It was all just drink. No one needed drugs. You just got on with… And like, now they always say, well, that, you don’t get an arm of a… I was smokin’ stuff, you don’t get an arm of a… But you’re doing drugs. It’s all the same thing, you know? It’s… But I can never… I can never say I’ve ever seen anyone on drugs. We’ve always been a… It’s all drugs, no. Yeah, I mean. It is, isn’t it? And that’s it. And we always… That’s what was all about. Drinking it in one way. That… From being little, that… But that just put me around my black under the table. But that’s how it was brought up, the fact is, in getting involved with everything. But never, ever, no drugs. And so can you talk some more about the… This… Because this is very particular… PUBS, with a very particular audience. Customer base, which could have been… And here would have been… Troloman and people from all over the world and people that worked on the docks. This was a working class place. Was this a working class thing to do, do you think, to just go in the pub? Yeah. Yeah. It was always the pub where you went. Everyone wanted to the pub. Why? I suppose it was just a meeting, but everyone got to the pub. Yeah, it was just a show of us. It was social, everyone was pulled together in the pub. It was all together in the pub. That’s all you’ve been doing. There was day straight, won’t they? There was… But even from it, I remember in “Little Gonna Commercial” Shout-out-out and from being a bed. You’re saying that back in the pub? Strictly. No, it didn’t have to be else at all. All the fishermen was crying. Rainers. It was Rosamund Club. And what was the one across the road? I was walking down the street. The only other was the good there. No, that was Gillard Street. Dee Street. See, it was all pubs. It was pubs on nearly every corner. I was like, “I could walk a road and go and walk ten to ten to ten pubs.” Just walking, running a cycle. They’re in, “No, no, no, no, gone.” It’s all gone now, wasn’t that? The only one that’s left now, really, is rainers, isn’t it? Rainers and crying, isn’t it? No, there’s half way. And millers. And millers. But nobody seems to go in there. Rainers is the pub. It was not because at one time it was all went to Rad. There’s no Raders, it’s gone right down. It’s real or lost, it’s because we used to go in, didn’t we? We used to go in Raders. And Raders is a club, isn’t it? Yeah. But we’d go in there, but again, we’d go in there when it was all the hours long. And Covid killed it because when it went a lot, we lost a lot of friends in Covid. And it just took a shine up of it. And you just didn’t want to go in no more. But I said, “Rainers, that’s all we’re going on, really, isn’t it?” We’re popping crying on again, but we’re going to lose half. But I mean, it’s more rainers, isn’t it? Because, like I said, you feel safe there. And even if there is a fight, you know, you can look, you know, that’s how we all are. We could all look after ourselves. And you might add you, we’ll have a fight, but next minute, you buy each other a fight. So what is the fight? Tell me more about the fighting. What is that? I don’t know what it is. It’s… Just pick a contact in the drunk. The drunk and the just check it. The drunk… Check things the wrong way, and then they’ll say, “Sorry, I was wrong.” You know, “It’ll be fine.” And then next minute, “Sorry, I was wrong.” Yeah. It’s the be… And they’ll admit it. They’ll admit the wrong way. They’ll know the right. They’ll walk back down. That says a road again. Fight for what you know is right. And it’s… But it just goes on, don’t it? Yeah. And then your friends are getting on there, right? Yeah. Yeah. We’re doing it. Sorry, I’m doing it. Yeah. But, yeah, but I’m not… Well, not saying that. It does. It just says something. You think, “Well, I’ve got so far…” But stop it there before it gets out of hand. But then again, if we’re doing right-asked, then it didn’t cause… You did that fired, you know. Well, I said then you go to the next day and everything’s all right. Sorry, I had a drink. Apologize. They just… Do you remember it always being like that as a kid? Yeah. Yeah. It says “a road” in it. It says “a road”. You remember… That’s all I can… Oh, I remember it. Like he said, I was dragged up. I want to… That’s how I was brought up. And the people that still don’t wait and say the love as a road for that same reason. Again, like I said, you know, like that teacher, two teachers in there, that took me a real life. Still come on road, I’ll still see him 50 years later. And they’ll still come back and want to go on road. Because… And they’ll still come to the unions because that is the community that they remember. There’s those little bins. So it’s got a pole. From somewhere, haven’t it? Yep. And then… The… I mean, it’s a fascinating. But I don’t know anywhere like it. It means it’s fascinating. I don’t think the rules are going to be so… Well, there’s an old in the room saying “They’re all doing this road”. And… They’re doing that. But… You still don’t want to do it as the errand. You’ve got to… You’ve got to do the right… You’ve got to do the right… You’ve got to do the right to have arenas. The ones before Rachel, that was hilarious, won’t it? They put this coupling from… A country. Like a country-bunking thing. You’ve never seen that like it in your life. They just ring around them. They last it three months. You’ve got to know… That’s what you’ve got to know of what it’s like. You’ve got to be the right person to run arenas. And the world’s giving up. And… I mean, this goes back to Clarice and all of that. Yeah, absolutely. I’d to be strong. To do it. And it’s interesting it’s strong women. Yeah. Yeah, because Clarice wins, she had a lot so… She was married to Pete Bebbie. She lots have been the seller and left him there. Yeah, she was going out tonight. Oh no! Look in the seller! That’s my name. We’ve been training well. That as well. Well yeah, it just seems I’ve been… It’s been the women that have been the strong. When it was rough. When it was rough. And I said, I can remember the rough. I can see it all. I can see it all playing in the band. When it was… When it used to walk a career in the band, it was absolutely shocking. When they’d all come home together. And then you couldn’t get in there so you went to do straight. Then it was cross to landers and it was always chock-a. And that was the times… That was when the ships were there. Yeah, it was going on dark to meet him coming in and they were… Chucking up on the ship so you could have a ride or a dock and that. Also, the fishing’s real nice to do. I like that now. That’s all I can. Don’t you know, only fishing on the left here at all? No, was it? There’s no boats, you see. It’s gone. So then the last thing, because I realised we’ve been here for hours, is there’s something about… I’d like you, if you could talk about the different acts, like what is it that Ray does as a performance and what are the other acts that you’ve seen in there. You know, like, you know, if you think about all the stuff that was on a voxel or… Ray-nurs or whatever, what can you remember, you know, there was the drag, what else would there be?
[Transcription missing]
Ray, that did that and the shores of that. Can you explain what those drag acts maybe wore or what they did? What do they do in their shows? Oh, I think a lot of it’s the same, isn’t it? Yeah, it’s more or less. More or less than the same shores. You know what they all do in a different way. What is that? It’ll be the same song, but done. How can say it’s done differently, isn’t it? Well, some of them were tacky, won’t they? You had some that was tacky in the flood, like the big mop’s it. And all the young was a suitcase and a bottle of whiskey. And a gun drunk can come after one alien. One like a tee-in? No, one like a tee-in. It was a little bloke. He really told you he was an alien. And he was to cut a horse to a rave and a bad old suitcase with a tall fox in it. Pissed up. Cornstage. You’ve never seen that like it in your life. With tatty, with muckiest old clothes, you could find, I think. What are you all talking about? I think it was me. So they had. And he’d get on and fall about the stage. Average drink, won’t go on. Well, that was with that, because it was my kid. Well, it’s a real tender reasoning. I can’t remember his name. But that’s what, like, said all the other pubs. They had a mixture. His boxers always mixture. That’s why it was done. It was a mixed pub. It had everything on it. And he had some great singers, didn’t they? Yeah, it was under the red flax and all that. It was to be, yeah. Well, the legends, didn’t they? No, the legends never went in the box on. No, not in the box on, but the went in the rainers. Oh, yeah, look at the green rainers. That’s now, yeah, like, the Robeson with legends. And that was said now on its Venus and all that lot. Now, we know it’s all, it’s different. Now, again, Dory gets up, don’t show you. Oh, yeah. Actually, he goes back. He has cold rivers. Cold rivers. Yeah. And she used to do it in the group and it was a son in the Rosebund. You were going back years ago and that’s going back to Vauxhall. And it was cold rivers then when she was in the group. Cold rivers, yeah. Yeah. Because we used to get a bus from Vauxhall. And in the country with them, you know, because the only song I remember is your silver wings. It’s different, easily, and he stops over there. Silver wings, first time I ever read them, cold rivers. And so can you, I know your friends have raised. So tellers, can you tellers about his act? What is classic about him? No, no one will be reading them. Oh, you put, the only one that comes near him is, Adam. Oh, yeah. Now, it is just fantastic. Adam’s laughter. Adam’s laughter is, it’s damn hard if he had to get, I don’t get Adam’s laughter. Good day, any more. You know, I would say when we come near him, for sure, is him but me. Really? No one stands up. He’s a young one though, you know. He’s just coming up. I think that he will, he’s good. But, alright. I like the laugh. Yeah, but he’s not a drag act. He’s just, oh, you know, he doesn’t go drag, he’s still. Yeah. But, um, I think, really, it’s the banter. It’s more, it can read you, it can look at you and he knows exactly, and he can insult you, he can do everything he does to us. Really, I’m not sitting there and it’s all you’re going to get away with it. And he does insult you. He insults everyone. He was seen sure. Well, well, believe you or may it’s here, because he does insult and everyone just laughs. But the more he gets you biting, the worse he gets. So the more he gets it, the more he gets it, the more he gets it. He’s got an audience. It could just go, and it can go on for hours and hours, and that will stop him. It’s time to read the little one we’ve been, we’ve been working with him, and we’ve had to like, practically drag him off the stage because he just, he’s got to go on the audience, you won’t get a message. Not like the ones now, they’re gone and say about doing 20 minutes, 20 minutes, I’m gone. That’s it, just go. Not right, he has to keep going and going and going. And I’m going to get a move. Where was the weather in his face? There was a wave, won’t we? And she put him in that corner and he was not happy. Yeah, and if you’re not happy, you’re not happy. I know he wasn’t happy. And he kept saying to us, he’s doing the show in his way. Yeah, and the landlord has shoved me in this fucking cupboard, and I won’t be coming back here again. And he would not let that go. It can be a bad, someone gets sent, if it would be a right. If he gets a vote, he’ll do his bonnet, you know about what it is. Well, that’s when you can’t beat him for that because he can capture the audience, and that’s what the, like, first time I was in ruin, it’s out of my cousin’s, didn’t I? So it would, one of them, because of the scene, I’m three of them, man. And he’d, so, he’d pull ribbons out of them, and we’d go again. That was you, I’d everyone, yeah. And I would have laid. And there was only Debian, yeah, well, I don’t know what, there was only a camera that said, “Yeah, so follow him.” She’d come there, didn’t she, Debbie? And he said, “Yeah, she’s a bit posh.” But you want me to left? All the fucking hell about your address? I’ll have your come from. But that’s it, it just, it just knows which ones to pick on and have a go with. Is the, that said, please, revenge for Kofnal. No, no, no, because that’s all he is, and you’ve got to, we did that. And like I said, that’s, again, it’s coming back to how you brought up, how you take it, not snow for eggs, you can take it, and you can give it back. So you’ve got me, and someone goes, “Hi, huh?” So that one of them, “Fucking hell.” And that’s it. I’m being weird, it’s getting written, because we’ve got two doors now. It’s just, what everyone starts, you start saving one off, and that’s the fun. Rare gives you the fun part of it, as well as the glamour sounds, right? Very good banter, isn’t it? Very good. But it’s got a lot of glamour, he does, he does, he does, he’s amazingly. Yeah, exactly. And he does, he’s outfit, so beautiful. He really puts his hat and soul into it, what he does. And that’s what he said, we see that in a girl and watch all the drag acts, but like, we said no one will be, no, on him. But maybe that’s because we’re prejudice, and we’ve known him all these years. Like, yeah, a lot of the songs we don’t know, and yeah, a lot of the songs, we’ll see the mother and other again, we still have to laugh at them. So can you tell us one of the classic Ray, think of one part of his… I told you about one of them, of my boys, Nickers. No, that’s all. Don’t laugh about that, he had done that for a while, everybody. I think what most people like more than anything is what makes a man a man. Yeah, that is his, that is his, and people try to know it, but they can’t do it like him. And so tell us what happens in that. Because that’s often drag, and then dresses, child’s never… That’s the end of the show. It’s the end of the show, and it changes into a shirt and trousers, and it’s the weds, and it does the weds mean a lot to a lot of people on that. So yeah, that is Ray. But all, but he can do it, it’s basing and everything in it, and sharing it. So yeah, it just can do it all. We’re all with him, all he looks. If you asked him to do it, he will do it. Don’t know when it happened when I was moving on to it. Because it turns on. I’m on the right. You have to look up the stairs, just look. I’m in the back. You’re basing, you’re doing it. [laughter] Yeah. It’s everything with him, isn’t it? Yeah, yeah. People just ask, mostly people ask more for like Tina Turner and… Basin Basin. A chair. And he is… Me and Maggie, Maggie was a mother, a chair, I didn’t want to just put the big load bolts on. You know what I’m saying? You can fancy it. Oh, you could fancy it, but then leave it, and no, there’s everyone. Me and Maggie have to sit there and vox like that on his legs. They’ve got better legs than us. But yeah, it’s just me, and we’ve never seen anyone, but I came and I said, the nearest one we’ve seen has come to him, he’s mad, you know. Yeah. And he is really good. He’s a young lad, and he can do 30-foot changes. Like that, where we’re at. 70-foot on it. Yeah, doing it like that now. The yawsters are working everything out. Yeah, doing it now, not like a yaw still. Yeah. But yeah, there’s… I suppose when you sit and think, there is a lot, like, it’s just jogging your memory units or the things that happen. Right. Perfect.
