Partial transcription to 1hour 26minutes. We are working on the rest…
Kate Genever (KG) : This is Kate Genever recording, Ray Millington, Bobbie Mandrell, Candy La Barry at their house on St Paul Street on the 21st of February 2025. We are starting by looking and exploring a folder of photographs that Ray has that were taken by Tony Ward from Top Colour on Hessle Road. So Ray tell me what it is that you can see.
Ray Millington (RM) : There I am, that’s me and what he did was he took a photo of me getting made up. So it goes from.. I’ve by-passed some there and it goes to that and if you notice it at every stage and he takes it right the way through to that. So that’s every photograph of me. Starting to get made up, one eyebrow, one eyelash.
KG: When was this do you think?
RM :Oh gosh it’s in the eighties, way back in the eighties because there we are that was the finished product and there was that photo like that. Yeah he did also yeah that one, I used I don’t think we ever used that as publicity but I liked that one. And he did all these, there was all studio mixed.
KG : So tell us what’s in that picture, what costume?
RM : That one, it was, I’d said to me dressmaker I’d always done Dolly Parton in the show, country, but I had a pink cat suit which Margaret made and I said ‘I just want something different’. So she said ‘Well what would you like?’ I said ‘I don’t know’. I said ‘Something maybe leatherish’ so he made me a full outfit for Dolly Partner and it’s all pink leather. And it’s a pink leather skirt and a pink leather waistcoat and then the blouse is pink with all sequins. So I can take the waistcoat off to reveal the top. Very cleverly done. It was that, but it weighed a ton. I used to sweat like hell.
KG: And what are you holding?
RM : A rifle, I know, I look like Annie Get Your Gun. Yeah but there’s also these are just photos that Tony took studio-wise. Because he was having a sift through to see if he could come up with something different from it. There is again that’s the one with the funny leg again. And that was another one that you know I don’t know about whereever that’s gone. It’ll be somewhere. I’ll still have it. I don’t part with it, I don’t part with anything, bit of a hoarder.
That was the start of the two heads. That was how Tony did it. He took so many, it’s all misty at one side and then what he did was he put them together. And I didn’t see the finished product until he’d done it. And he said ‘What do you think?’ And I just went absolutely mental on it. It’s fabulous but my family didn’t approve of me using that photo as a publicity photo because my mom said she said, ‘Raymond it’s giving too much away.’ She said ‘They know you as Bobby Mandrell or Candy Le Barry’, as I was then, she said ‘But now,’ she said, ‘they can see you as you are without the makeup.’ and I never thought of it that way. But we did use it as a publicity photo and it made it made loads of bloody money for charity. That’s what we used to do with all the photos. We used to sell the photos and that one, yeah, this one was one of the first sit-ins Tony did for me up at his Anlaby studio. And he had this fantastic chair and I kept saying ‘Can we use the chair?’ He said, ‘In a minute, in a minute.’ He said ‘And what are you gonna wear?’ I said, ‘I don’t know.’ And that’s how I come to be in silver sequins wi red feathers but a black and white feather boa. But it fitted the chair. It seemed to work, you know, for that one. We had a lot of fun that particular shoot that Tony did. It was night time when it did the shoot and we was back in the studio and I was getting changed and all I had on was stockings and suspenders and the police knocked on the door and they said, Tony went and answered the door. And this place lady said, she said ‘Can we come in?’ She said ‘We’ve noticed it’s late at night and there’s a light screwing on and off in the studio.’ so she said and when they come through I was stood there in just stockings and suspenders. With a feather bower round me neck. Tony said ‘It’s Candy Le Barry, it’s Candy Le Barry! We’re taking photos.’ We still both laughing about it. And there’s a photo, we’ll find it. There’s a photo. When they’d gone he said ‘Well I’ve got three snaps left on the camera’ and I said ‘Well’, I said I said ‘I can’t do anything Tony’, I said ‘I’ve got on stockings and suspenders’ He went well ‘Shove a wig on. Put that top hat on.’ And I put the feathers round me face and that that was when, I don’t know whether I’ve got the photo? There’s the half and half. But i’ve got one somewhere and I don’t know where it is. Tony goes crazy, mind you, it’s my favourite as well. It must be in another album. But Tony always called it Marlene Dietrich. Because it’s just me head and you know and there’s just one little feather off the bower just out of place there. And he said ‘You can’t use that for publicity, the photos not right.’ One little feather. But I did use it, nobody ever mentioned it.
But that was another one he said. I said ‘I want some-it for Christmas Tony’. He said ‘What are you gonna wear?’ I said ‘This silver suit. This silver sequined suit.’ Spot on. It don’t look very Christmas. So he went and took these out of his shop window. These parcels and that off the door. He said ‘Now it looks Christmas-y.’ And he said ‘That’s your new Christmas shot.’ We never used it. But these are all done by Tony at the Top Colour. I hate that one, oo I don’t like that one. There’s that one again.
That one me mum never liked. That, she said ‘You look like a squirrel.’ I said ‘What do you mean?’ She said, she said ‘You don’t wear a bright red wig, on a bright red background with a yellow and blue top on.’ she said. ‘You look like a squirrel Raymond, I don’t like it.’
These was taken live. I don’t know who took these. I think it was Tony I’m genuinely not sure. But it was taken live on stage. It was through a Bassy set. I think you can tell with the first the first movement. That’s at St George’s it is. I can tell by that. It could have been. This was Tony as well.
KG : Can you tell us about this act? This particular
RM : What makes a man?
KG : Yeah because people talk about this and you doing it?
RM : Tt’s always been, it’s always been a topic of conversations is that particular sketch. What happened was I was in the merchant navy and I was away for Christmas and I was in Canada. And these people in, I want to see Chicago, I could be wrong, something tells me Chicago. You get these people coming on board the ship and they’re selling things. You know, I mean, they know you’ve been away at sea and they’re selling, I don’t know, maybe shaving foam and razers and all sorts. And this guy had these cassettes. Which you can tell how long ago, it was 1976. 76 and and selling all these tapes and what have you and cassettes and what have you. And I had a cassette player in my cabin and I bought these and there was this one I didn’t know who it was. Charles Aznivour.I thought ‘Oo right.’ So I bought it, I looked at what the tracks was. Sounded nice. And I was laid in me bunk listening to these tapes couple of days later. And this song came on and it was ‘What makes a man, a man?’ Never heard it before and I thought ‘Wow, something could be done with this song in the show.’ Anyway came home, went to Paris for a long weekend and I saw Charles Aznivour live at the Paris lido. And he did ‘What makes a man a man’. He did the song. And I went ‘Wow!’ And then it dawned on me. It was all about a gay man. It was a drag queen and he had no friends and he went home alone. I thought ‘That’s my life, this is me.’ and I rehearsed it and I rehearsed it and rehearsed it and rehearsed it and we was doing it. And my manager at the time, Leon, I said to him when I was living in * in the high-rise of flats. And I used to put the tape on when I was getting a bath and that’s how I rehearsed. And I said ‘Oh’ I said ‘I’m gonna do this changeover that I’ve been talking about Leon.’ And we went ‘Aye alright then.’ It gets to the club and it all went wrong, it all went completely wrong. I couldn’t ger it right. I didn’t know what I’d done wrong, but it wasn’t right. So we scrubbed it and then one night about three months later, I was laid in the bath, getting ready for the show again and it came on the radio. The song came on the radio. And I’m listening to it and I thought ‘I know what was wrong’ When Leon came for me I said to him ‘I’m gonna do the changeover.’ He said, he said ‘Oh you! Effing hel!’ You know he said, ‘It all went F-ing wrong last time, you know, you got booed off the F-ing stage! Don’t do it!’ I said ‘I’m doing it.’ And I went and I did it and it brought the house down. And what I’d got wrong when I first did, was the timing was wrong, me timing was wrong for taking me clothes off. Me timing was wrong for taking the makeup off. And then it it were, it’s 4 minutes and 24 seconds long and now I can do it like that now. But and that’s been in the show ever since. I think, I’m almost certain, I was the first drag act in the country to ever do it. Everybody does it now. A lot of people have carried on. But definitely, it was just so strange.
KG : nd so tell us, what you do? How does it work? Imagine nobody’s seen it.
RM : Yeah it it’s um, we always do it like it’s a big finish with a show. Like I wear one of these costumes that lifts up. The lift ups. I’ll say good night to everybody, say good night to people that have worked with me and everyone that’s booked me and all the rest of it. And then I just turn round and say to the audience ‘And now I’d like to finish with my song. This is me.’ And it goes straight into the song and the song tells the story. You know, and it’s all about this drag act that works on a night time, on his own. He comes home on his own. He lives with his mom and he helps his mom do all the washing and everything. But he does it better than she does because he’s gay. Bang. And and it’s at the end, it’s it’s telling you, tell me if you can. What makes a man a man? I’m a woman. I’m a man dressed as a woman at least. And then I’m changing back from that woman to a man. So what am I? Am I right? Am I wrong? Should I be this? Should I be that? But no, I’m me. I am that man. And this is how, when I finished the spot I’m completely dressed back as me. So, I’ve gone from a female back to a man. The makeup, the makeup, I take all the makeup off. What a lot of people don’t know is, but I let you into a little secret now. What a lot of people don’t know is, when I go off to get changed for the last spot I have, I come back on I’ve got no eye lashes on. I’ve got no false nails on and I’ve got no tights on. They’ve already been taken off. That’s why all the finale outfits are all full length. So you don’t see my legs. And then when I can take the makeup off, I can take the makeup off very quickly with theatrical makeup remover and I’ve got nothing to worry about. No eyelashes to worry about, no tights to worry about, no nails to worry about and it’s off. And then people that have seen the spot will notice that I have trousers on. Then the makeup off, then the shirt on and then that’s the end. And I always like to finish up with moving both my hands, pray to God, pray to Christ. Thank you very much. I’ve got through it. I’m here, I’m still here, thank you. This is me and that is the end of it.
KG : And how does how does it make you feel to do it. Maybe it’s different now because you’ve done it a lot?
RM : Yeah I still get the same feelings, definitely, I still feel as if it’s, it’s telling a story. I know nowadays when I first started doing it. You know. All those years ago I mean1973 I think I started doing the shows. And it was hard. It was really really hard. It was hard to be gay. You know we very very rarely went out. You know. On dark nights I didn’t like to go out on dark nights. I’ve been threatened, I’ve been, I’ve been beaten up and I’ve had me noes broken twice. I’ve had takeaway food thrown at me. But, but Hessle road and all the the people on Hessle road, not only in Hessle, but Hull in general. But I started doing the shows down Hessle road. And people used to say to me ‘Aren’t you frightened, all those fishermen?’ I’d say ‘Why? They’re only human like we are.’ ‘But you’re wearing a frock, you’re dressing as a woman?’ Nobody had ever done it before. It’d never been done in this city. Not by anyone. You had Dany Le Rue on the television but never a local lad doing it. And what a lot of people didn’t realize is, I come from a fishing family. My uncle’s was, my father was a fisherman. You know, what I mean is, to be quite truthful I never really thought about it. I wanted to entertain. I couldn’t sing and the only way I could think of to entertain was doing the drag. And it just seemed to be right, you know. It was, it was right. And I mean all these years. I mean, I’ve had some strange looks by people in the pubs. And I’ve been threatened by some women for talking to their husbands but I’m sorry I can’t help it if I look better than you, than you do. And that has actually been said to me by a landlord of a pub. He said that once to me, ‘My wife has been all day going having her hair done and her nails done and buying some’it new and you have to come in a full-length ball gown.’ I said ‘I was asked to.’ And that was for a licensed victuallers do that. I don’t think I’ve told anybody that before, but it’s the gospel truth. And I didn’t, I didn’t wear the the ball gown to outstand anybody it was just the brewery wanted me to be there as Bobby Mandrel looking after my pub, which was the St. George’s. I was the landlord of the St. George’s, the landlord of the St. George’s was Bobby Mandrel. Bang! So they expect to see Bobby Mandrel. I was once working behind the bar in the pub. We’d not had the pub very long. And I was working behind the bar. It’s a Thursday night and this gang of people came in. I say a gang, about 12 people came in the pub and they’re all going. So I said ‘Are you looking for someone?’ So she said ‘Oh we thought Bobby mandrel would be here’ I said ‘Oh really’ I said ‘He doesn’t work on a Thursday’ I said ‘Not on the stage.’ ‘We’ve come all the way from Bridlington’ I went. ‘Oh I am sorry’ I said ‘I won’t be a moment’ and I went upstairs, I said to Alan ‘Get the gear ready’ I said ‘You watch the bar.’ And I came back down and I said to’em. ‘I am Bobby Mandrel’ And this woman went ‘Dressed like that?’ I said ‘I only wear the gowns’ I said ‘when I’m up on the stage.’ ‘Oh we’ve come all the way from Bridlington’ she says. Well I said, ‘If you wait, give me three quarters of an hour,’ I said ‘I’ll do you a quick show.’ That’s exactly what we did. And from then on we realized that people did want to see Bobby Mandrel. So I was in drag Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday every week. And every Saturday was my my Bobby Mandrel’s night. But every Sunday I’d have drag acts from America, France all all over the country.
KG : Well who were they? Can you say?
RM : Yeah, there was the Dream Girls, Etienne, Brian Murphy the Broadway bells the Broadway Bells, Lips and Lashes, the Harley Queens. Oh God Gale Force, Penny Change and others. Hundreds of them. I’ve got photographs of nearly all the people that ever came to work for me. And Deja Vu, Adrian James. There was so many. But it was nice. It was nice for me to stand back and let somebody else take the stage. I used to get, I used to get a big kick out of that. And then I did the Lady Boys. The St. George’s lady boys. I mean Blackpool had the Funny Gals. Hull had the Lady Boys. And I think everybody used to think ‘Oh they’re gonna be these pretty little boys’. They wasn’t. Not at all. They was pretty to me. But they want tiny little boys. Not by any means. I mean we had nurses that used to come. We had Les, Big Les. He came on and did Cher. A 30 stone Cher. We had him. There, there was and I gave them all names. Miss Fanny Nice-n-tight, Patty Udors, Legs le mour. Even Denise that you interviewed yesterday. I had her. I was one lady by short. So we shoved her in. Dunk! And I was saying to the audience. Which ones the woman? And that many people got her! Sorry Denise! They all thought she was one of the lads.
I had the the most fantastic, fantastic DJ, Crystal. He was fantastic. He used to make sure the show went perfect. The night went perfect. If you wasn’t out in the George by quarter a past seven on the Saturday night, you know, you’ve no chance getting a seat. You’ve no chance gerrin in. It was like that every single week for four and a half years. Every single Sunday, I used to love Sundays. And people used to say to me, ‘Well why don’t you put a male singer or a female singer on?’. I used to say, ‘Because you don’t want it’ I said ‘I’ve had singers on and what do you say? Can we have a drag act on?’ I said ‘So,’ I said ‘I’m getting them.’ I was getting drag acts from all over the country. And in the end one of the drag acts, Penny Change, he owned an agency, Prime Core, the agency was called. And I used to get all me drag acts through him, after a while. Because it was the best way to do it. And he’d make sure.. Little story here. A lot of them was just starting off, bless them, we’ve all got to start somewhere haven’t we? I know that and I appreciate it. This particular Sunday night, excuse me, as I just told you every Sunday was drag night but I used to know more or less a month in advance who was coming. And this drag act arrived and she said ‘oh’ she said ‘I’m so and so’ and so I don’t remember the names, generally can’t remember the names of these people. And I said ‘Are you from, through, Prime Core?’ ‘Yes’ ‘Oh well there’s the dressing room.’ I used to make sure they was all looked after in the dressing room. They’d be drinks in there for’em or whatever. And this particular night he went on and he did, he had this brown mac on and had this suitcase and the song was ‘Just arrived track 22. All the way from Tulsa Oklahoma.’ I said that’s from Copacabana (quote, unquote we don’t own none of the copyright for this music by the way) And he did the show, it was alright, not bad. The following week this lad arrived. I said ‘Hello’ He said ‘Can I speak to Bobby Mandrel.’ I said, I said ‘You’re speaking to him sweet heart.’ ‘I’m the drag act from Newcastle from Prime Core’’ The music started up, he come out the dressing room, brown Mac, suitcase, Just arrived… same track. Oh that well, last weeks did that. Carried on, did the same show. The following Sunday another one arrived. You know what’s coming don’t yeh? Yeah brown Mac.. So in the end I got on the phone. So ‘Penny Change, what’s going on?’ I said ‘I’ve had four acts, for four weeks, all doing the same songs.’ And he went ‘Didn’t they change’em?’ I said ‘No. It was the same suitcase, the same Mac’ I said ‘The audience, the audience knew the song.’ Four weeks. And he went ‘Ah well they’re just starting up.’ One of them looked as if he’d been on the milk monitors round. He didn’t look old enough to have been out, let alone on the stage. And and I think I was paying a lot of money. I was paying a lot of money.
KG : How much?
RM : Then.. Oh God, would’ve been back in well 2019, no 1998. And I was paying him 200 pound. That was a lot of money, you know what I mean? I mean, when I started, when I started £3.50 a night I got.
KG : What year was that?
RM : 1973 and if I did a Saturday, a Friday and a Saturday, I got £7. If it was at the same venue, which it would have been, at the Vauxhall. And I used to chaf about it. You know, I got seven pound. Me mom used to say, ‘Raymond shop assistant are doing 40 hours for less than that.’ And I thought, ‘Oh yes, she’s right.’ I was quite well off actually. Plus I was still doing the bloody, I was still in the merchant navy aswell. I was knackered. I used to, I used to have to pay two lots of stamp, two lots of tax. Honestly. Because I was working for North Sea Ferries as well. I used to eight days away on the ship, eight days home on one leave. And the eight days that I was home on leave we did seven shows. I did seven nights. I had one night a month off. That was it. But I was working up and down the country, everywhere. I’ve worked all over the place. And not just in England. I’ve worked in Turkey, Belgium, France, Germany, Holland. All over the place. And a lot of people go ‘Oh yeah’, but it’s right, you know what I mean. A lot of people don’t realize I think that some of the things that I have done. You know some of the people that I have met.
KG: Like what?
RM : I mean, you don’t blow trumpets or anything, but I mean I’ve worked with quite a lot of celebrities. That, you know that, you think ‘Oh really?’ I’ve worked with Cilla black. I’ve worked with the Bachelors, Cannon and Ball, Little and Large. And the list could go on and on and on but I’m not gonna do. Because I don’t blow trumpets. The only person, I will say, that I loved, absolutely loved loved loved working with was Jimmy Cricket.
KG : Really?
RM : Yeah. I adored the man. I worked him on his series, well on the television. So I’ve been on the telly as well. I’ve done Emmerdale farm. I’ve done Coronation Street as extras. I ain’t always only done that in drag. I do, extra did extra work as well. I was once in some Victorian series and I looked like Mr. Pickwick out of Pickwick papers, because I had a bit of a tummy on me and they put this big orange moustache on. Yeah, to see me this afternoon and then to see me tonight. I’m in fishnets and feathers tonight. This afternoon in this pompous fucking suit on. With a big belly in this waist coat and a tail coat. And this massive big wig. And I got there early, so I was made up early in the morning. And she said ‘Don’t eat anything.’ I was starving and I was having to drink a cup of tea through a straw after so the moustache didn’t come off. But Jimmy cricket, he did a sketch, and it was Jimmy Cricket is bald. So it was five bald men all dressed in dinner suits and we had to come on all pulling a chair. And then he played a tune on our heads with a silver hammer. Doo doo doo doo doo doo. And that went out and my family was all settled, did it hurt? What nobody knows was that, well they do know, a lot of people know this, but I’ll tell you. The night before this was the filming was done, Phil and I had been to a friend’s birthday party and I was absolutely hammered. And I had a mega hangover. And he’s bashing our heads with this rubber hammer. And I said ‘Oh don’t worry, it’s not real hammers’ I thought well obviously. But the pains was real hard on me head. And at the end I had to pull all these faces and my face is the last one as the credits are going up. The director said ‘Perfect, how did you manage to do that?’ And I was like I’m in fucking agony, that’s why. And he went ‘Oh right, we thought you’d done it for the telly.’ Went ‘No I’m hurting!’ Honestly it was so. And the reason I love Jim so much is because a month after the show I was coming home from Watford or something. We’d pulled into the services, Phil’s gone to get some coffee. I was sat falling asleep and as we walked in there was this gang, this table of people. And one chap was reading the newspaper. There’s Jimmy Cricket there I went ‘What?’ So I went that, and with that he moved his paper down. He said ‘Now then Bobby.’ Bang and he remembered my name. And I thought ‘Wow!’ and I went and I had a good chat with him. You know, I have a lot of time for that man, a lot of time. You know. It’s like Joe Longthorne. I worked with Joe many many many many many many many many times. I worked with Joe.
KG : Did you know him through the Hessle Road family? Is that how you first knew him?
RM : Yeah, Joe, I’ve known Joe all my life. Oh, well yeah literally all my life. My mom was a bar made in Halfway and she remembers Joe when Joe used to do to dance on a table. And she turned round and she said he can dance. But my mother was a dancer. She taught Joe how to tap dance on a table. So there’s all sorts of things and my father played the piano. You know and my father played the piano all over the place. So Joe used to watch me dad play the piano as well. So, you know.
KG : And what was important, what’s important, for the record, about Joe Longthorne? Tell us, like, if you don’t know Joe. Like we know, might know, the story of him, from that area or what it was.
RM : He was lovely was Joe. Joe I’ve loved. One thing that always took, Joe. Joe’s dad. Joe’s mum and dad used to come to my shows when I did Rayners and Joe’d come in and he’d sit you know with Clarice and what have you. And he’d gerrup and sing a song and a lot of people don’t realize that Joe. Joe was what you saw was what you got. He was just so perfect. In the respect of no airs and graces. I’ve come from gypsies blam blam and it was all true. You know what I mean. What a guy. I’ve seen Joe being that pissed he’s been carried out of Rayners and they’ve shoved him in a Rolls Royce and drove off. But that was Joe. Why not? It’s his time off. His time when he’s not working he can do his his so wishes. But his dad, his dad used to drive this butchers bike and had a big basket on the front. And he used to have two little Yorkshire Terrier dogs in. And he’d be riding down Hessle road. I’d be on Hessle road shopping and he’d go “Now then cam, you all right?” And ring his bell and carry on. His dad. Fucking brilliant. The times he’s bought me a pint when I’ve been up on the stage. “I’ve got your pint”, you know, on the stage. But Joe was lovely. Joe was really, he was kind, he was so funny. Really really you say he was funny on stage but he was funny off the stage as well. Really, you know, I’ve seen him and he’s been absolutely brilliant absolutely brilliant and then I’ve seen him and he was so poorly. And it was so sad. You know to see so much talent just just gone. You know. I once went to see him. We’d gone for dinner and Joe was doing Churchill, I think it was Churchill’s. It was in Hedon. And anyway we we’d gone to see him. He didn’t know we was there and in there, in that club then, all the tables went to a round stage. So he’d work the stage and he clocks me that I was sat there. And he went, “Oh ladies and gentlemen we’ve got a celebrity in!” Oh! And I could have s.. I wished the grounded.. Joe Joe Joe! He said “We’ve got Candy Le Barrie in”, as I was then. And the full audience gave me a standing ovation. I didn’t know where to look! Or where to put myself or anything. When we finished, when he’d finished and what a fantastic show. He said “Will you stay back for a drink?” I said “yeah”. He said “You and Phil” I said “yeah no problem”. The people that we was with they’d got a taxi and they’d gone home. And we stayed back for a drink with him or what have ye. And I said to Phil “We better order a taxi” and he said “No you won’t” and we came home from Churchill’s in an open top Rolls Royce. Singing with Joe Longthorne all the way up Hedon Road. I think big things like that and I lived in an high rise block of flats and some of me neighbours saying “We heard you coming home, we heard you gerrin in and who was that you was with in that yellow bloody car?” “It was Joe Longthorne” And they was hey!
KG : And we know that Joe Longthorne was a gay was a gay man and performing all over the world doing all sorts of stuff. Was I guess, part of this work, is looking at the acceptance of gay and queer people in that area.
RM: Joe never came out for quite a lot of years. We knew he was gay. And he used to go, just put his finger up to his lips and it was always kept under wraps.
KG : Why do you think that was?
RM : In case it affected his career. Because in them days all that, all that time ago, if you was gay out like that it was you know. I mean I knew a lot of people that was gay that’s big names that I’ve seen in clubs where I’ve worked. And where they’ve worked and I’ve been in. Names that I could mention, but I’m not gonna mention because it’s their business not mine to say so. But Joe had to keep it under wraps and he had children as well. Which, you know, which was like, sort of like his cover. I’d been married, erm way back in 1970 I got married. A lot of things had happened before. I was only very young, I was only 17 18 when I got married. To cut a long story show I was raped and I was 16. Badly raped. Finished up in a mental institute, finished up under psychiatrists. And because, I didn’t know what I was, what, I didn’t know, what I was. I didn’t know anything. In my family you didn’t talk about sex. It wasn’t discussed. It wasn’t at all. But I remember me grandfather saying to me once, I’d be about 13 years old, maybe about 13 and he says, -you my grandfather never called me by my name, I always got called Tom on Nancy- I know why he called me Nancy now but I didn’t at the time. Tom because I’m named after his son my Uncle Raymond. I am named after him. So, I suppose, it was maybe easier to call me Tom because we lived with my grandparents. And he says to me, “I want to ask you something” And I went “What?” He said “Do you prefer little boys to little girls?” And I said “I don’t know.” He said, well he said, “You” he said “You’re one of God’s special people.” He said “You are so special it’s unbelievable, listen one day, when you get older, you’ll know what I’m talking about” And I’m assuming now that he meant I was gay. I’m assuming that’s what he meant because he died. He died when, well I got married in 1970, my grandfather died in 1971. So, but I often sit and wonder what he would have been like with me. With the shows. Because they all sang. Me father played the piano, me mother sang and danced. I had an auntie, she was a country western singer and an uncle was an Irish folk singer. I’ve got my uncle Raymond, sang with Shirley Bassie. The entertainment’s there. And I often wonder what my grandfather would have thought of me being Candy Le Barrie, Bobby Mandrell. I think he would have looked after me like you would not believe. He’d have pushed me all the way because he loved entertainment. He loved, he loved that side of life. They all did, you know. My parents, my parents used to come to all the shows. My mother was the biggest critic I ever had. “Don’t like the frock, don’t like the wig and the music was crap.” Well thank you very much. End of. That would be it. I was once working in Vauxhall. And I was trying to work the bar top. No stage in them days. Work the bar top. And they’d have a microphone stand at the end of the bar. And the bar went like that, like an L-shape. My parents was sat with my grandma right at the end of the bar on a double seat there. My father came up to the, up to the bar to order some drinks. And he’d got his brand new burgundy two-piece suit. Out the catalogue, brand new. He loved it. Wonderful. And new colour, real trendy. He’d ordered the drinks and I went like that with me hand on the microphone stand and all the drinks went all over him. He got drowned in all these drinks. And I started, I was virtually crying and he said “No no no, you carry on you carry on I’ll be alright we’ll get dried off” And that was me dad.
You know it’s just its things like that. I once asked him to make me a wig box my dad. Very clever man with his fingers he was so talented. He was clever, beautiful artist and everything. So while I was away at sea he made me this wig box out of wood. But by the time I got the four weeks in we couldn’t lift it up. And he said “Shall I put wheels on it?” I said “I’ll need a truck to carry it”. And he said “Oh well nevermind.” I’ve still got that box now and it’s full of shoes. Me poor old dad. He couldn’t even lift it up. It took two of us to gerrit. But It was these funny things like that. It’s like when I first came home from America and I’ve stopped doing the shows by then. This is how it all started again, right. I’d done shows when I was down in London, Millwall docks docks and all the rest of it. Because that’s virtually how it all started, was on board the ships, all the drag, for me(….) And then I’d come home from America and I’d gone into Pollys Tudor bar. As we all knew it, was Tudor bar then in Paragon Street. It was the back end, we used to go to the back entrance of White House Hotel and the back entrance was Paragon Street. And that was the only little gay bar we had was Tudor bar, Pollys. And I’m talking tiny. Not much bigger than this room. If you got thirty people in you’d be squashed. It was a cocktail lounge for the hotel. But the guys adopted it. And I’d been away and I’ve gone in there and all the lads said “Where you been?” I said “I’ve been away at sea.” “Well you’ve been away forever.” I said “Yeah I know.” “We’re just going.” I said “Oh great” I said “I’ve only been home” I said “I only came home two days ago.” No, I’d been home two days. I had a beard, a mustache, the lot. And they went “Don’t you look different? don’t you look, fabulous cut.” I thought “Yeah yeah yeah”I’d be like. “We’re all going down to Vauxhall.” I said “Oh great” I said “So that leave me here” “Well come with us”. I went, “Well what’s going on at Vauxhall?” “There’s a drag act on.” Bang! Oh great, do it. So we got a taxi. Taxis, “we’re going by b…” I said “I aren’t going by fucking bus, get taxis, I’ll pay for it.” Boom boom boom. Moneys no objects, just gerrum. Two taxis down there. Clarice the landlady said “I hope you lads havn’t come down to see the drag act. Yeah he’s poorly. He’s not turning up tonight.” And I went “Oh you’re joking”. She went “No” she said “All those people have come in to see him but..” Dave they called him. Dave and I became real good pals. He helped me over the early years of the show for Candy Lee Barrie. Used to do all me music and everything for me. And when I first started. Well, story, so one of the lads said to me, “You used to do drag”. “Oh” I said “Christ almighty” I said “It was a while ago now” I said “I havn’t done it for ages.” “Well can’t you help her out?” Clarice said “I’ll pay you.” I said “It’s not the money” I said “I just a’nt go anything” I said “Got no outfits, nothing.” She went “Oh well that’s the end of that then.” And they all said to me “You’re a miserable bugger you are.” So I jumped into a taxi, went all the way to Orchard Park. Flew in. Me dad was poorly and he went “Raymond what’s going on?” So I said, “Where’s me mum?” “She’ll be in soon, she’s just at work but she’ll be in soon.” I went “Oh right okay, yeah.” So, I went upstairs off came beard. In me mother’s wardrobe, that that that, her wigs. She used to wear wigs. That’ll do. Jumped in the taxi. I said “Tell me me mum I’m at Vauxhall and I’ve been in her wardrobe.” And he went “hey what yeah all right. Wha’s going on?” I said, “Nevermind.” Flew back to Vauxhall. A dance set record player behind the bar with a record. And I’ve still got the records in there where we’d marked the cover with a tick so Clarice knew what tracks I was doing and what number I was doing. Still in there. The record, the actual main records that I used. And I said “Where am I working?” She said “Up there.” I went, “You joking aren’t yeh?” She said “No, up on the bar top” And I wore all me mum’s clothes, me mum’s wigs” And she said “Oh” she said, “You are good” she said. And across the ceiling in Vauxhall is a beam. A big beam going right across, where the bar, it’s above the bar. And I used to do Judy Garland, ‘Somewhere over the Rainbow’. And I and you could see, years and years and years, my fingerprints was on that beam. For years, because it’d never been decorated. And the more it nicotined, the more it got.. “Will you come back next week?” So I went “And do me another night?” I went “Oh I don’t know about that” I said “I’m home on leave.” “Oh please”. Anyway, I did do. I went in, I went in and bought a couple of wigs. Had them specially combed up. Went into C&As and bought a couple of the most glamorous gowns I could find in there. Bang, that’s where it all started in Hull. And it was in Vauxhall on Vauxhall’s bar top. And that was for Clarice and the laughs, the laughs we had.
KG : So when would that? What year was that?
RM : 1974
KG : So tell me about the first time, so if that was the second, you said that’s when it started again.
RM : No, that’s when it started in Hull.
KG : oh okay
PRM : Yeah, before it was down in London, but it was just on for fancy dress and all the rest of it.
KG : You mean dressing up you would dress up for
RM : Yeah we’d go, I’d go out and we’d all go out into into London itself. Into all the gay venues and nine times out of ten I was in a fucking frock anyway. You know what I mean so. You’d say put that on and put songs on you know what I mean. We used to go watch all the drag acts. Then they used to get me up on the stage and maybe do a couple of songs at the Vauxhall Tavern, the Elephant and Castle. Loads of pubs, you know, I can’t remember the names of them. But that’s basically how it started down there. It was just done purely as a joke.
KG : Amazing
RM : I once sat, I was once in the mess room on a ship in full drag and the captain came on. They was doing a presentation for something. I can’t remember what it was. I can’t remember. And every time I stood up, he stood up. And everytime I sat down he’d stand up to let me sit down. And in the end I said to one of my friends, I said, “Tubby, why does he keep..?” He said “He thinks you’re a woman.” I went “What?” I said “For God’s sake don’t tell him I’m one of the fucking stewards” And he genuinely from that day to this, he doesn’t know I was a fella. Somewhere, I’ve got the picture of me sat and what I’m wearing. And I don’t know where it is. It’s in one of the albums. And every time I stood up, he stood up, “You alright dear, would you like another drink?” This the captain the ship telling me. There’d have slung me down the bleedin’ gangplank if they’d ‘ve known. The ramp at least. Yeah that was that was 1972..71.
KG : So from 73 when you did the on the bar top in your mom’s outfit
RM : Vauxhall
KG : At Vauxhall that was the first. So who was the first, do you know who the drag act that had been canceled. How because was she showing in drag at that point or was it a thing that was just starting to happen.
RM : It was just happening. What it was it was, it was a group called ‘The Changing Scene’. And Dave was a little stocky guy, he was the vocalist, he was the singer. And there was Laurie, Laurie played the the organ, the keyboards (….) Brian I want to say Brian was the drummer.
KG : Michael?
RM : Michael was the second drummer, Michael was the drummer when they became the ‘Starlights’. So that was Michael who’s got the piano shop. Yeah, no it was before him. It was Dave and Dave used to do drag in their show. Because it was a comedy show band and that’s all it was. But he looked so good and he had the most fantastic voice and that’s how it started. So it was Dave and Dave did all my, I still got somewhere in the house, I’ve still got the original tape he did me. So it must be, that must be near 50 years old. But I used to do shows with them as well. You know they used to say “Candy Lee Barrie’s in the audience, we’ll get Candy Lee Barrie on the other stage.” Dun dun dun! You know, I mean so. Or it’d be pre-arranged.
KG : I was gonna say because were you going out dressed up?
RM : No no no do you know that’s something I never did. And that’s something I do now and people go “Ah” I’ve been doing this now 52 years just gone. And I know there’s Ru Paul and all this around, which I’m sorry, it’s not my scene. I don’t like it. I don’t, that’s another scenario, I think they’re all talentless. But that’s that’s me. But when I arrive at a venue we rig all the gear up. All the electrics are done. Do a sound check and then I disappear. I’ve gone. Bobby Mandrell is in the dressing room. You might see my dresser, the person at the bar maybe getting a drink for us or chat to someone. But you won’t see me and I refuse to come out that dressing room until I am Bobby Mandrell and then you won’t see me until I’m on the stage. My intro comes on. That’s the first, I won’t come and socialise with everybody because and that’s not being bitchy or being a diva or anything like that. To me it’s an illusion. I don’t want to break that illusion for you. I like it when I’m in dressing rooms and I can hear people say “I wonder what he really looks? What do you think he’s gonna be wearing? I wonder what color the outfit is? Do you think it’ll be sequins? Do you think it’ll be big? Do you think it’ll be a coat?” And I love that because they want to know what I’m gonna look like when I come out. If I go in the audience when I’m fully made up, where’s the? There’s no illusion. The, the only thing that you’re gonna be captivated with is, because I would go off and get changed. I would wear one outfit to come out in but another outfit for the stage. The stage outfits are always special. They’ve got to be special. I’ve got to wear things that you’d like to wear. I want to wear things where you hear women say “Oh I’d love that, I would love one of them.” And I love that because it means I’ve made the effort. I’ve done something that you want me to do. It’s there. I’ve had people ask me if they can borrow clothes for weddings. You know, I’m saying, “Of course you can, what you want? Here.” “Oh you wore a sequin jacket when you was at so and so. And I’ve got a pair of trousers it’d go a perfect.” “Here you go, take it, borrow it.” You know, it’s nowt to me. As long as they look after it and I get it back. And then, I don’t have a break. Most, well, I’ve started to have a break now. But most drag actsI’ll do maybe one spot then go have an hour off and then come back. I don’t like that. I want to go from half past 8 till 11. The only time I’m off the stage is for purely for a change costume. That’s it. If you’re going to toilet, go now, while he’s off. Otherwise you’re going to miss it when he comes back on. Because I’m there to entertain you and an entertainer is what I am. I like entertaining. I don’t want to get you all warmed up and bouncing and then go off for half an hour and then have to start again. I’ve got you. I’m gonna keep you. And I was told that by a lots of people in the business. Well not in drag but in show business in general. When you’ve got them in your hand, keep them in your hand. And I’ve done that, I’ve done that all only drag life. You know. It’s it’s really strange and then as I say, the next time they see me,they see me as me in ‘What makes a man.’ And then I come off the stage and then I can.. Funnily enough, only last week, a lady had been to the show that I did it at Comedy Lounge. And I’d seen her the next, not the next day, the next day the day after, I was shopping. And she went “Fabulous show, loved it, absolutely fabulous and that blue outfit.” And I thought “I know” I said, “It was brand new” I said I said “So was the finale” She went “Oh that was a dream, but the blue, the blue, it’s the blue one. We couldn’t even look at it” She said “It was sparkling that much me eyes was like..” “Oh right” She said “But why don’t you come out so people can have their photograph take with you?” And I thought “Oh but she’s not the first person to ever say that” But when you think about Kate, years ago we used to do publicity photos. People didn’t carry a camera with them like they have a mobile phone now. So you’d stand there and I’d, well you’d sign autographs, well I’d sit and home and sign autographs. Dozens, thousands of them before we went so they could have a picture signed. Just put your name on, off you go. And being dyslexic as well, there’s nowt worse when they’d say “Oh me name’s Theodora” I’d say “How do you spell that then?” And someone’ll say “And my neighbour..” I say “What?” “Kimberly” “Yeah in a minute then!” Think “Christ Almighty!” And I used to say to Margaret and Big Les, “How do you spell..?” Honestly, truth, I wouldn’t lie to you. I’ve sat at table… We used to go out and do the photos. And I’d be maybe set it at a table for maybe an hour. It’s no good, I’m not being paid for that hour. I am when I’m up there. Anyway, that was my.. it’s and she was right. And I’ve thought about it since and I thought, “do I start taking a short break?” Because when I work there I’ve got to take a 45-minute break. And it’s like Andy says to me, me dresser, he says, “But” he said “You’d have to come off stage, have an outfit purely for going out in” I says “That’s not what I want” He said, but he said, “I can guarantee” he said “you’ve only got 45 minutes, everybody would want a picture. It’s gonna take over on hour to do this lot, because there’s what, you’re talking about 160 people” and I’m thinking “hmm..” So, it’s like that. I know it it be nice. But I don’t think it would work for me. It’s it’s crazy,’’in it silly? It’s just I don’t know.
KG : I mean you could have promo shots again?
RM : Yeah, there is that. There is some kicking around somewhere. There’s loads of them. But they don’t want that. She wants she wants Jill and Jack stood with Bobby Mandrell. This was us. This was us when we went to Bennidorm, oh that’s Bobby Mandrell stood in the middle. This is what you get. And I know that’s what they want. So, I’m very seriously thinking of altering the show so that I can do that. You know arranging it with the management. You know wherever it is that I’m working. If they agree with it we’ll do it. Because it is a nice thing. It’s nice. I mean the Hull people have … well they’ve just been wonderful to me. They’ve given me the most wonderfullest life. I’ve had a fabulous fabulous life. I’ve hard a life, it’s been a graft. But I’ve had a good life and the support that I’ve had. When I was poorly everybody knew that I’d got cancer. And they wanted me to, the doctors wanted me to take time off. I had to have 37 sessions of radiotherapy and two and a half years of hormone implants hence the weight. Because when you have hormone implants it’s the same hormones that a lady has. And it puts weight on and on a man you don’t lose the weight. So and I thought “mmm”. Well the Hull crowd, I forgot what I was saying know. That the Hull crowd.
KG : That when you were poorly?
RM : Yeah, when I was poorly, I did, I worked every single show. I didn’t have one single night off. I never took any time off. If I was booked to work in Oxford, we went to Oxford. I’d have my chemotherapy, at least, not chemotherapy, radiotherapy at half past 8 in the morning and we’d be on the road to go down into Oxford maybe at three o’clock in the afternoon. I used to fall asleep in the car and what have you and Les who ever was driving would say “You alright?” I’d say “Yeah I’m just a bit tired” Because the the the radiotherapy made me tired. Never missed a single show, not one single show did we miss. I did everyone. And took more on. I had to do because that was my way of fighting this. It was my way. I thought the bastard better not get the better of me. And the people of Hull, I mean on Facebook alone I had what? Over a thousand “get well soons.” To me that’s unbelievable. You know I mean. And I thought “Wow!” And you’re not giving it up and all the rest of it. And I’ve gone… I’d be about five months… six months? I had a bit of an hiccup. I’d got over all the, and there was an hiccup. And they pulled me back in again and they thought the cancer had come back. It hadn’t but they made sure. And I had to see this counselor that while I was there. Because, one side people didn’t know. They also, it was ripping me heart out. Absolutely ripping me to shreds. But I wanted nobody to see that side of it. If I cried, I cried alone. I wouldn’t let you see me cry or anybody else. Anyway, erm I’ve got these, I was having these sessions and what have you and I was talking to somebody, at Castle Hill in the Queen’s Centre. And she turned round and she said. I’m gonna say what she, exactly what she said. So if this offends, I’m sorry. She said “I’ve got canceled love” she said “It can kiss my fucking ass” And I went “Oh right!” So, I thought “really”. So I got in touch with a friend o’ mine who was a tattooist. And he had a tattoo shop on Hessle Road just across the road from Asda. So I parked me car in Asda car park. I went across the shop and I went “Excuse me” I said but I said “Can you do me a tattoo?” He said “Well that’s what I’m here for mate.” I went “Oh” I never you know. I went “Oh.” And he went “What do you want? Is it a big’n or little’n?” I said “I want a pair of lips tattooing.” And he went “Pair of lips? What?” he said “On your neck? On your chest?” I said “No, on me bottom” And he went, “What?” I said “On me bottom.” He went “Serious?” I said “Yeah” he went “Alright, okay, no problem.” “What’s the name?” I said “Oh Mandrell” And he went “Waht? Bobby Mandrell?” And I went “Yeah” And he went, “You joking aren’t yer? You are Bobby Mandrell?” I said “Yeah I’m Bobby Mandrell” he went. I said “Why?” He said “You did mam and dad’s wedding” he said “before I was even born.” I went “What?” He went where’s me phone? “Mam I’ve got Bobby Mandrell in ‘ere” And I thought… Anyway I had to go back and this is the funny part. I had to go back, Neil, he was lovely. I love him to bits. And he says to me “Are you ready? It’s.. I’m gonna warn you now, it fuckin hurts. It’s one of the most tenderest parts to have” Right okay fair enough. So he lays me down, gets me all ready and what have you. “Are you ready?”I went “Ow!” He said “I ‘avn’t touched you yet” I said “What was that?” He said “That was the anesthetic cream going on” I thought “Okay fair enough!” Anyway he said “Are you alright?” And this tattoo and he went “It’s there” I thought, well you can see it. It’s..
KG : Yes I can see
RM : It’s there. Right Marilyn Monroe’s lips it is.
KG : Of course
RM : That’s who’s they are. Anyway, so, he said “How you feeling?” So I said “I’m alright, im paying for it.” He said “You an’t” Here’s the punch line. I went “Oh great, I’d parked me car in Asda.” “Oh” I thought “I need some bread and what have you, I’ll do that now” This woman went “Oh I love it!” I went “You love what?” She said “Your tattoo,” she said “It’s marvellous!” I said “Why? Was you in the shop watching?” She said “No, it’s all over Facebook” He’d only took pictures of me bottom and purrit straight on to Facebook and everybody. And they’re all going, everybody and everybody had seen it before I did. And now when people say to me, you know about the tattoo. I go “Yeah cancer can kiss my fucking arse.” But it was this woman, “Love it! It’s all over Facebook” I went, so I phoned the shop up. I went, he went, “Oh” he said “I thought I told yer” he said “Oh well me mum wanted to see what I’d done” he said “so it must have gone on Facebook.” But it’s crazy things like this, I just love it. You know what I mean? And now I get people saying now, you know, if they remember, “show us your tattoo!” So, I put it on Facebook, I put it on Facebook. I said “Yeah the cancer can kiss my fucking arse.” Oh dear but it was so funny. I just looked at it, you know when you want to curl up and die. I thought she was maybe I hiding in the shop somewhere. I thought where was she? No! It’s all over Facebook. I’m shopping and it was “How’s your bottom, is it sore?” I went “No it’s fine” “Have you just had it done then because we’ve only just seen?” I says “Yeah half an hour ago” “Oh right” “Oh maybe should put some ice on it” Not standing in the freezer. Fuckig hell.
KG : Does it feel.. I mean clearly they love you, don’t they? Love you, you’re hilarious and they love that in the act
RM : Yeah
KG : But is there something about being of that place do you think? What is that?
RM : I’m a Gemini by birth. I had to be didn’t I? A Gemini by birth and believe you me I live up to my birth sign. I am two different people, completely two different people. You’re here today interviewing me and I’m very chatty when you’ve gone you’ve been I’ll go real quiet. I can go into a pub with friends and I can sit there and be real quiet. People go. When I come, when I come off the stage after a show and real introvert. This is why I were just saying about the photos. Whether that’s part and package me I don’t know. But all me friends that I go out with, they take me all over cause they think I’m a nutcase. I just love a good time. If I’m out, I’m out because I want to enjoy myself and I want you to enjoy yourself as well. And I’ve got the most warped weird sense of humor. I can laugh at everything that you couldn’t laugh at and I will and then you’ll laugh at it because I am. I’m one of these that if you fall, if you seen an old lady fall on the ice, I’d be on the ice with her laughing, because I wouldn’t be able to gerr her up.
KG : So is there something about that, I mean the question was about what is it about you know those women love the fact that you’d had a tattoo on your bum and it’s just you and they’re in Asda and you’re in Asda your very approachable and all of those things. So is that important for you?
RM : Yes yeah yeah people see me I get sometimes.
KG : Is that to do with your background? I mean I don’t want to put words in your mouth.
RM : But I think you could be right. Yeah I mean I can be in Boyes. And people have come up to me in Boyes. I’ve been shopping with my sister “Excuse me I know you’re.. I know you’re out sh.. Could I have your autograph?” and I’ve been dressed as me. So “Yeah course you can. When did you see the show? De de..” You know I mean? And I ain’t got nowt to write on. Can you do it on here. You know and I’ve had all that you know. I’m just yeah. But, I think, I like people. I’ve always wanted to be liked. I think all my life from being a child, you know, because I was very quiet very introvert as a child. Which I’ve been told by me me my brothers when me sisters and my parents when me parents was alive. But I think it’s acceptance. I want to be accepted by you. Someone once asked me, an agent once asked me -and I’ve said this in lots of interviews- and they’ve said to me many times you know. “What do you hope to achieve by doing drag in this city?” This was an agent in Hull. And I went “What do you mean?” He says “What do you hope to achieve by a man wearing a frock in Hull.” And I went, I said, “If I can make..” I said “somebody laugh once in the night I’ve achieved sommit. I’ve made that person happy for maybe five minutes” I said “They could be going through a crisis but I’ve made them laugh that means the world to me.” That means more to me than all than all this lot, than anything. That means more to me than anything. If I can make you happy and make you smile I’ll do it. I’ve got me road to do it. I want you to be happy. You know because I’ve gone through hell and back over the years. With marriage, with a marriage, divorce. I lost track of me two boys. Me oldest son died. And I’m now in contact thank God with me youngest son. You know we’re a good pals. But to lose them for 30 years. It was so hard. People couldn’t understand what I was going through. You know what I mean? But I kept in touch with the boys through my ex-wife’s family. I knew what my two boys was doing. I knew where they was. And all the rest of it and nobody knew that I knew. Well me and this family member did. She’d tell me. And that’s that’s how it happened. I mean, I’ve told this story before and it’s gone on script that, I was working at a pub and I used to park the car in the, in the pubs car.. In the pub’s smoking area when I did a show there. And we always used to say, and we still do that if you haven’t seen my show, you’re a Bobby Mandrell virgin. Because everybody’s seen the bloody show, you know what I mean? Or I like to think near enough all of them have. And Andy was waiting for me and I pulled up in the car and I was just about to switch, close the window and he went “Bob!” I said “What love?” He said “We’ve got two Bobby Mandrell virgins here” And there was a man a woman stood and I said “Now then!” I said “I clocked you” I said “I know which ones you are” I said “You won’t be virgins for very long will you.” And this woman says “Oh we’re really looking forward to it” And a voice said “And I’m a Bobby Mandrell Virgin as well dad.” I went “What?” Well, he said, “It’s Lee, your youngest son.” Well I thought “Eh! Wow”. It was like somebody had smacked me in the face with a tennis racket. And I did the show. He stayed in all night, did Lee. Watched the full show. And I says to Jim the landlord, I said “There’s me keys, shove them in the safe, me and him’s going out” Me and me son we went out and I didn’t get home till seven that morning. We went for a drink and we had a talk like you would not believe. He wasn’t drunk and I definitely wasn’t. Because when I’m working I don’t drink. You know I mean? And bang! And we’ve kept in touch ever since.
But I’m one of these people, I don’t.. I’m not on your back all the time. You know I don’t phone him every day. I don’t text him every day. But if he needs me he knows exactly where I am. If I need him, you know I mean? I know where he is. But that’s the way I am. I’m like that with me family and I’m like that with me friends. I’m very.. sometimes I just want to be on my own. Over the years I’ve belonged to the.. belong to the public. I’ve, I’ve felt as if.. I know this might sound wrong and I don’t wish it to sound wrong but sometimes I’ve felt like a possession. As if I belong to you. It’s like people have said to me “We’ve paid so and so and so and so to come and see you.” That’s nothing to do with me. I said “I work for a set amount. That’s the management not me.” I’ve had people say to me “By God you must be a bastard millionaire. We’ve paid so and so and so and so.” I said “Hang on a minute, that in’t me, that’s the management.” Not that I have to explain this to people. But that’s the way I look at it. That’s the way I feel about it. You know what I mean? I mean honestly I’m.. I am very private. I’m.. I’m a really private person in the respect of myself and my partner parted in Millennium. 25 years ago and I turned round and said as I walked out the pub and I’d say it again and I’d say it to his face. “There’ll be nobody else. There’ll be nobody else.” And there never has been. I’ve been on me own 25 years now and that’s through choice. And I don’t mean that to sound nasty but it’s through choice. I couldn’t be hurt anymore. I couldn’t be used as a punch bag anymore. And I don’t mean punch bag is in, in physical. I don’t mean that. I mean emotionally. I couldn’t do it anymore. You know I mean? Alan used to say to me “Ray you’re wonderful but your sarcasm.” But that is my protect.. that is my my barrier. That is me protecting me. You know what I mean? and no. I’m not saying I’ve been an angel in 25 years because I haven’t. That’d be a lie. You know I mean? We all have needs. Well, used to. Not at 72 so much you don’t. It’s a nice thought. But there you go. But no, but no, there’s never been anybody else. And I turned round and said “No one, no one, no one will ever use my tele remote control but me.” Oh and him, me dog. That’s it. I’ll live and die for him. You know, don’t we.
KG : I mean so do you think? I mean it’s a well known, lots of performers talk about this other side, needing to be this quiet person that like your social battery gets exhausted or however they say it these days. But do you remember this as a child? Or how your family, you know like was this a? It’s important they were entertainers. I guess but it was.. that wasn’t their trade. They were…
RM : No no no no no oh no far from it. No my Uncles and some of my cousins was fishermen. My father was a fish.., well my father was a cook on trawlers. My Mum was a bar maid. My Grandfather was a shipping clerk. My Grandma was a cleaner in Woolworths. You know what I mean? So they all had their own jobs but they loved just loved fun. The all loved.. and they loved parties. We used to have this piano in my Grandma’s front room in Edinburgh Street and I’m the middle of five. So I’ve got two sisters older than me. Valorie’s 76, Sandra 73, I’m 72 and then I’ve got two brothers younger than me. And I can’t remember how old our Barry is. Well anyway my youngest brother’s 62, the youngest. So you see for quite a few, there’s a six year gap between me and my brother. And when we lived in Edinburgh street mam, we had this piano in the front room Grandma’s best room and it had candelabras things stuck out of it. We’d all be in bed and if they came home for a party. Get the kids up, there’s Sandra one side, me at the other side on the top of the piano. We had to sing. Like performing monkeys. And the times me dad would be bashing away at the piano and we used to fall on these is candelabras. Ooo! Ouch it hurt. But that was my family. You know what I mean? I laugh and joke on the stage when I say I used to share a bed with two sisters, I always used to manage to get the shallow end. But I was, I was really shy as a child, really really shy. You know I mean if you said “jump” I’d say, “how high?” I did as I was told.
KG : Why do you think?
RM : I think in my own mind, I knew I was different. I knew I was. I liked little girls but I preferred little boys. And I knew that from a very very young age. From a very young age. And yeah definitely. And I always liked to be around the girls. If the girls was having a party in the garden I had to be there. I’d wear a tu-tu, ‘owt you like. a
And dress me up. Do what you like. The times I used to dance round the living room in me two sister’s ballet frock and then get slapped….Lovey, sorted out. So you know, yeah. You see when we lived with me grandparents, there was me Grandma, me Granddad, my Mum and my Dad, my Auntie and Uncle, me two sisters and me. All in one house. It was amazing, oh it was wonderful. What a what a life. What an education. What an education. I can remember one of my Uncles, coming home.. You’re gonna love this. One of my Uncles coming home and down Edinburgh Street every so often you’ve got a passageway that goes in between the houses. And when you went through that one side was my grandma’s, the other side was Mrs Boast, that side. Bang bang bang bang on the front door. Me Grandma was cooking dinner in the, in the kitchen. “Go see who that is”. I went running up the passage. There’s horse stuck in the passage. So I went “There’s an horse, an horse stuck in the passage.” Crack, “Don’t be so bloody stupid.” I said “That’s what Kenny Lawrence’as just said.” “What passage?” When she goes out, my Uncle Bill, pissed as a newt tried to get the horse down the passage and it got stuck. True! Me granddad used to… played cards he came home with a pet pig. Oh you never knew. When we was kids we never knew what we was coming home to. There’d be chickens in the back garden, we’ve had ducks, we’ve had goats, we’ve had sheep erm… pigs, the horse. You name it alsation dogs, pigeons. What a life! And people say “Oh you must have had a real posh up-bringing.” Did I hell! I’ve never never have. We once went to one of my Aunties weddings and me Mam and Dad was that hard up I had a patch on me, on me trousers. Short trousers I had on and I had to go to the wedding in a patch and I vowed from that day to today I would never ever ever ever go without. I have always made sure that Bobby Mandrell has alsways had the best I can afford. I’ve always made sure. I’ve got over 300 shirts. I’ve got over 500 pairs of shoes. Because I vowed it would never ever happen again. Nobody’s gonna laugh at me again and they did. My aunties and uncles laughed at me because I… It was gray trousers and had a black patch on. And I felt, I was only a child. I’d only be… wow.. 11 or 12 years old. But I remember it, I remember it as clear as yesterday. And I vowed it’d never happened again and I’ve made sure it never did. I’ve always.. You know when C&As was open, I’d go in C&As and if I liked this blue shirt and they had it in green and yellow I’d have them’n all. I’ll take all thr… And me mother used to say “Why do you need all these clothes?” It was like my, like a defense mechanism. I don’t know how to explain it and I’m still like that to this day. I’m terrible. I can take you shopping now and I can guarantee I would come home with either a pair of shoes, a shirt or a jacket. Terrible! I’m a compulsive buyer. Terrible, compulsive shopper is it? But not only with clothes and things, but with everything.
KG : But do you think that comes from, I mean, often working class people talk of these similar stories, don’t they. They had nothing or there was nothing and then, and then this is a reaction to.. We are the products of our childhood.
RM : Oh yeah very much so very very much so yeah. Definitely. You know I’ve, I’ve always worked. I’ve always done two jobs all my life. I’ve worked two jobs from being 14 years old. You know what I mean. And work to give me mother money to feed us. You know what I mean? It were’nt only me it was my sisters as well. You know what I mean? It was, it was it was hard. Really hard. And I remember telling my mum and dad I was gay. I I’d been married. As I said I’d gone through the, I’d gone through the rape and all that lot. And then my dad turned.. My sister was getting engaged and I was going out with Carol at the time. And I was 17. And me dad said right off the cuff, he said “Why don’t you make it a double engagement party.” He knew, my father knew. He knew I was gay. Anyway we did have a double engagement party. We got engaged in the April, married…. Double engagement party in the April was married by the December the 5th. Married. Done. Wasn’t right. I knew it wasn’t right. My Auntie came through from Mansfield. We got married. A big, big wedding. We had a nice wedding. You know what I mean? We didn’t have to get married. We’d never slept together. Nothing like that. Oh no no no no no. And my Auntie Vera was drunk. And used to go stay with my Auntie Vera up in Mansfield when I was a bairn, then. Because I lived more with my grandparents in me teens. And when they went to stay with Auntie Vera, I went as well. I think it were to get me out the bloody road to be quite truthful. Auntie Vera always turned around to me and says to me “There’s thing’s gonna happen in your life, you know, that you won’t realize.” And I used to think “Oh right” You don’t have to think as a kid do yeh. Anyway she’s stood outside having their photographs taken and me mum says to Auntie Vera “Aren’t you gonna get in the photos?” She said “no I give him 16 months” She said “Whinnie you should never have made him get married. You should never ever have made him get married.” And me mum said “What on earth are you talking about?” She said “You’ll find out, you will find out” And they did. 16 months later I’d already got one little boy. Carl, Carl was born. We got married in the December and Carl was born in the September. So it proves there was nothing like that going on. I used to, it’s difficult to.. I used to.. um.. Carol and I would make love and then I’d get up and go out. I couldn’t stay there. I had to get out well. It weren’t right. I shouldn’t have done that. It weren’t right. And I knew it weren’t right. I shouldn’t be with that lady. And this is one of the reasons why.. When we separated and we divorced. It’s one of the reasons why I cut the boys off. I wanted them two lads to have a normal upbringing. I couldn’t provide that. I was a queer man. I was called queer by all the family. Their family and everything. You know what I mean. But with saying that I’m still in touch and friends with all their family. We have still.. In fact I’m friends with me ex-wife now. But it was wrong, I shouldn’t have got married. I fancied my best man more than I fancied my wife. I mean what do you do? So I cut myself off from the boys, wanting the boys to be brought up what I thought was correctly. With a straight mum and dad. I was wrong, I was a freak. You know, I mean, because.. I didn’t. I still didn’t know what I was. I still.. I’d been married but I still didn’t know I was gay. And by that time I was having sex with men. By that time. We lived in Terry Street. I used to climb out of bed with her and go into Pearsons Park. And there’d be men hanging around in Pearson’s park. It was so.. I was so mixed up and confused with all of it. You know what I mean? Cos one of the guys that raped me, I was madly in love with him. I was absolutely madly in love with him. It was so… And I remember going home to my parents living in Orchard Park. And I remember going home and me dad was in the garden and I said “Is me mum in?” He said “Now then son what you doing what’s the matter?” I said “What do you mean?” He said “What’s the matter? What’s matter? Raymond” he said “what’s the matter?” I said “I want to talk to you and me mum” “Oh” he said “Christ” he said “Is Carol alright?” I said “Yes” “Is the bairn alright?” I said “yeah. Where is my mum?” “She’s at work” And within 20 minutes me mum came in. And I was, I was outside and me dad was in the living room. No the other way round. Dad was outside, I was in the living room. Anyway she said “Now then, what you doing here?” I’ve got something to tell you both. She said “Where’s your Dad?” And I mean, my Mum called me Dad in. Dad came in and he was stood -and I’ll always remember, in my mum’s house you had a door here that led into the dining room. A door there led into the hallway and the sofa was across the room there. So there was the fireplace and that carriage clock, that silver carriage clock, there was in the middle. And me Dad’s got his hands around this carriage clock. And he’s tapping it and he said “Raymond what’s the matter?” And I said and I’m looking.. And me mum says “What you doing with that George?” And he’s tapping it. And he went “What’s the matter?” So I said “I think I’m bisexual.” And me Dad went “Hahaha” And I moved. And the clock moved. I thought he was gonna pelt it at me. And he went “I’ve known forever, I’ve known forever that you was queer. I have known forever.” Me mother “Well we know you” she said “We know you like a good time” she said “and you’re gay and we like going to gay parties and everything” She said “We all know that.” Me dad said “No, he’s queer, he likes men” And me mum went “George go get Ellie’s gear from that house1.26
