File Part 1.
Kate – Okay, so that’s going to record anyway. Erm… Okay. So, I’m going to put that – it needs to be sort of near-ish you, so I’m thinking it might be there. Would you like to just try and speak?
DD – Erm…
Kate – Just talk to me as if…
DD – Hello.
Kate – Yeah. Because we’re just looking at levels. So if it’s there, it should be fine. Okay?
DD – Yeah – Is that alright?
Kate – Yeah, it’s fine. Erm… So I’m just going to look up some of my questions that I have to ask. Do you have any questions at that point at this point?
DD – Erm… No, not really. Erm… I never know what to say. I suppose there is questions I need to ask for what, no?
Kate – Not about the process or anything.
DD – Oh, no.
Kate – No, nothing about that.
DD – No, no.
Kate – Can you reach…you can’t reach coffee okay? Yep.
DD – Yes.
Kate – Erm…
DD – Ya see I can’t cross me legs nowadays because he won’t have me with me legs crossed.
Kate – (laugh) Because it’s too warm and cozy.
DD – Because he gets too…
Kate – Comfy. And then, yeah.
DD – He’s a little devil.
Kate – Can you reach?
DD – Yeah.
Kate – Okay.
DD – Aren’t you a devil Charlie?
Kate – Erm… Right. There’s something I have to say at the beginning of the interview. Okay, this interview is being conducted for the Scene But Not Heard Project. The interviewer is Kate Genever. The interviewee is DD. The interview is taking place at Top Color in the studio on Hessle Road on February 1st. Is it the 1st? Or the 31st?
DD – Erm… I don’t think we’ve got to the February have we?
Kate – Have we not got to the… No, 31st of Jan. Erm… Okay. So, what we do is… Erm… I’d like you to just talk to me about… Erm… Let’s start at the beginning, I guess? Can you tell me when and where you were born?
DD – Yes, I was born in… 1955, 11th of November. It’s 11 o’clock in the morning.
Kate – (gasp)
DD – Mmm, me Mum always said that anyway. I can’t remember it myself like because er… Err in Beverley. Errr… Yeah. Err… My Dad was Donald. My Mum was Wendy.
Kate – And how long were you… And did you live in Beverley? Or were you just…you lived in Bev…
DD – We lived… We lived in and around Beverley, yeah, because me Granddad had a farm at Bentley – which is just outside Beverley. So… Yeah. So, it was always in and around Beverley. For the first… 16, 17 years of me life. So… Yeah. So, I say I’m Beverley born and bred.
Kate – And erm… At the 16 years, where did you go from 16?
DD – Erm… 16… Well… I spent quite a lot of time away racing with motorbikes. So… I was abroad quite a lot. Erm…. And then… I did stay in Beverley until – yeah, it was maybe 21 before I left Beverley. It just… It’s trying to remember now…
Kate – I know…
DD – It’s a lot of years ago, you know. I’ve got all of this – I’ve got all of this wrote down,
Kate – Yeah
DD – …and my life history, so, I don’t have to tell you it, you know
Kate – So we can – so we can share that. Yeah. Erm…
DD – I don’t think about a thing with that.
Kate – Yeah, and we can share that and use that. Erm… But give me a bit of a broad brush, so you were racing motorbikes…
DD – Racing motorbikes, driving the lorries for my Dad… Went from being 17. And err… Just generally falling out with the world.
Kate – Were you?
DD – Mm… Yeah.
Kate – Why were you angry with the world?
DD – I was angry with my Mum and Dad. And the day I left school, when I was 15, is the day my Dad left home. And it didn’t go down well with me… Erm… I was sort of asked to… Make up me – you know – say, wherra I wanted to go with my Dad or my Mum. And I’d just walked in from school. Me last day. I said I don’t want to be with either of you at the moment. And I said, and neither does me sister, so I said, we’re off to me grandma’s. (Laughs). So I told her to pack a bag up and let’s walk off. And that’s what we did. They didn’t stop me – they were still arguing. (Laughing…) I was, I was… That was the day I changed a lot. I did change a real lot that day.
Kate – What was the change?
DD – Yeah, I just wasn’t… Wasn’t a nice person anymore. I was angry. I was…. Yeah. My life hadn’t been easy. You know even though, you know, you’re saying – hell, you’re only talking about when you were 15. My life wasn’t easy. From being 11 – erm 9 or… 9 or 10. I had to… Like clean, look after all my Dad’s pigs. On the farm that he had at that time… Didn’t have – couldn’t go to school. Sure he had the twagman sorted out – because he used to come and see me working, and then he just drove off again. So… Yeah, it wan’t (wasn’t) a good time – was a bit of a slave, really. Till I went on strike, I were 11. I said, that’s it, I’m not doing it no more. And then… He says, “You are.” I said, I’m not. I says, There’s only one way you’ll get me to do it anymore is… Definitely not going to school anymore. So I don’t want no hassle with all that lot. And I says you’ve got to buy me a motorbike. So when I’ve got the pigs done and I can ride around the fields. And yeah, and being the horrible man he is, he agreed to it. He bought me a Triangle Tiger Cub, a trials bike. It was a good thing really. In the day, you know, it cost like 50 quid. Which, you know, in those days, in the early 60s, that was quite a lot of money. And that’s where the motorbike thing started. Well, it started before then. But that’s when it really started, because yeah I just had hours every day just… I used to build ramps and jumps and… Jump…jump over hedges and into other people’s fields, but no way to get back without going through the gates. (Laughs). I used to get into all sorts of trouble, but they were alright, really. It was only a bit of fun. Yeah. No, my life wasn’t…happy… really.
Kate – But then you went to… Sorry, you…
DD – So, yeah, so… Then I went to… So I went to live with my Grandma and… err…I stayed at my Grandma’s – my sister went back to my Mum…after a few weeks. And the time I was at my Grandma’s – it was very – it was a great. I was working for a man in Beverley, who took me under his wing years before, a man called Jack Turner, who run – had the Ducatti agency motorbikes and erm…he used to take me all over racing. You know not me racing, but them racing, and you know – met the people that he sponsored to race. And I got – you know – I was part of the furniture there, I was more happy there than I was at home. You know, it was great. And yeah… The late 60s – ’68, ’69. Yeah, I’d be 13…13 – 14 years old. It was good – real good. Erm, and I got working for Jack as an apprentice mechanic. An engineer. Nah, nah, you’r better off and coming drivingBut then…I was doing real well. I did – I learnt a lot off him – from him, about engineering and all sorts really. And then…erm, what happened then? Oh then me Dad decided he wanted to go and drive for him when I was 17. I’ll get your past yer test – I’ll pay for it all. I said I don’t don’t particularly wanna drive, I says I want to be a mechanic. An engineer. Nah, nah, you’r better off and coming driving. It’ll be your business one day, it’ll be all this, that, and the other. (Slow)Yeah…Just…the wrong decision by me to go to work for him. Cos’ he din’t like, at that time I was racing. He didn’t like me racing motorbikes. He wasn’t bothered about me killing myself, wasn’t bothered, you know. I can’t avoid it really. He just didn’t want me to have a life of me own, you know? So… Yeah…erm … so I eventually gave in. I’m coming up to me 17th birthday. I got passed my test before Christmas that year, which was 197.…2, I think… Yes, ’72. And just after Christmas, yeah, I left Jack’s, started driving from me Dad. Brand new lorry, and I quite enjoyed it… just din’t get on with me Dad… At all. (Dog growls)…Oh, an’ what’s wrong with you? (Dog barks). This isn’t your place to start barking…
Kate – There’s somebody about..
DD – There somebody about int there Charlie…Yes, you’re going to see, you don’t like other people do ya? You’re grumpy aren’t ya?… Erm, yeah. He didn’t like me racing at all, so… I, erm… I left. I got sacked, I went back. I left. I got sacked. I got, I went back then got sacked. And then I’d leave. And then when I started getting pretty fast on motorbikes, in 1973, I’d done me learning for a few years. In places like Elvington and Carnaby…in Scarborough, I started getting pretty good. When I was 17. Erm… Then started to have the accidents. But that’s what racing’s about. Some times you go home after the weekend and some times you don’t. I wasn’t crashing all the time, but when you’re pushing and pushing, like I was, because all I wanted to do was race motorbikes full time. That’s what I wanted. That was – that would’ve been my dream. But… It never happened. Although, I was quite good. Quite a few other people I raced with at the time went on to make a living and be champions on motorbikes. You know, in different World Series. So…Yeah, and I could beat them on a regular basis. And sometimes they’d beat me sometimes – you know, it’s… Depending. It, it…We had no malice to one another, even though it was… I wanted to finish in front of everybody. But I wouldn’t have forced my way past them and made them have an accident. Like, some riders, was a bit like that. But, I wouldn’t do that, because, you know, I just… it wan’t right. There’s means and ways. You know, it’s better to do it with skill rather than… …brought on I think. You know so it’s…(Dog barks). You know, I was always known as ‘the late breaker’. I could go into a corner, like, still going flat out, and other people have been on the brakes for like, last 50 yards. I’d still be… …on it. And they wouldn’t know how I did it, because I didn’t… my Yamaha
That’s still the… …on it. And I wouldn’t have ever did it, because I didn’t… My young, I didn’t hear it. It was a work-to-ear manner. But it was built by the factory. But I wasn’t a work-trader, anything that used to build race bikes as like, like, production bikes. And I got people who go racing, and I got this one. It was really, really good. And, yeah, only had drum breaks. Yeah, I was up-working the paper with the disc breaks. Yeah. Just, basically, I was a better rider. I, you know, I was more brave and… I had more confidence in what I was doing, I suppose. Yeah. Um… And I said I’d have the ad-accidents. I brought my back up Mallory Park. Hit the wonderful… …this wonderful stuff called Hamcar barrier. It’s going to the savior of all the race tracks, you know, and things hit it would just bounce off. Bodies don’t bounce off them very well. Off the boards, like… You get brought them back and stuff like that. And then my dad didn’t like that. I was up until much time off work, a bit months and months and months. So I got up to about 18. And, uh… I mean, I went back to my dad’s for a little while driving, and just couldn’t get on with him. I said, “That’s it. I’m calling it a day with you.” And that’s what I did. Went to work with my best friends, for my best friends, to have as a scrap man. And loved it. Yeah, driving a little van, going around vans, collecting scrap, and worse paper bags and worse fertilizer bags. Loved it. Absolutely. That was me. You know, if I couldn’t race, that’s… I would just love doing that. You know, it was… It was great. Wolfie Wood… Took me to a job, you know, where it had burnt. It’s cut a lot of scrapels, so it’s fitting the van to add a damn to about two foot pieces. It’s so right there. There’s actually, we’ve got to cut that one up with the gas bottles and this and that… and that… and that aper scrap over there. So I’ll just pop the coffee shop. I’ll come back after. Well, I’d come back about six hours later. Well, you know, I’ve been sat around for about three hours. I’ve got it all done. I knew about metal, with the engineering bit, and so I knew what stuff needed. And, yeah, it was… Oh, it’s so fun. [Laughs] Wait. [Laughs] It decided we would go picking cauliflowers for a farmer. So… What? No, the cauliflowers. That wasn’t the first job we did. What was it? It was… …de-leafing… …tenet… …and… So you run your hands down them, and then you shove them in the fit and then pull them up and they’re all the lades drop off. No, it’s… it sprouts. It sprouts. Sprouts. So all of a sudden, the fill stood up because this thing has sprouts and you just cut it off at the bottom. But we didn’t cut them off. We was the day leafers. Well, what a job that was. Wilphy, I’ll show you how to do this job. It bent off a… …I mean… [Chomping] And you go like that all day and I’m having stuff to coffee shop again. [Laughing] So soon as they went to coffee shop, we just sat down and had a smoke. [Laughing] Oh, it was funny. Yeah. And cauliflowers… …it was a massive fail. And yeah, there was a lot of cauliflowers in the field to start with. But I mean, it was there for a few weeks, you know, as they were getting ready. You know, as they got ready, you just said, “I’ll come back and have another go. I’ll come back and have another day.” And one of the bosses was in the field with this one time. And he says, “Oh, yeah, there’s lots to do.” I said, “Well, I can’t find any of the moments. I’m looking, you know, going all over.” And he saw he wanted off and he said, “I’m surrounded. I’m surrounded.” And I says, “What, wait, there’s cauliflowers.” He said, “You know, it will too. There’s too.” There wasn’t enough in the field, I had to go there. I don’t know, I remember about that. It was just funny. It’s one time I remember all my life. For me, man. Yeah, so I did the scrap thing. Then I set up as a mechanic. A little bit of all age on the island, just like a van, a Logan van. I suppose that was the beginning of me in all age, really. Yeah. I’m just trying to… I’m going steady because I was trying not to leave. You know, my left loads are really, I suppose. We looked at them, but I don’t want to go on, but I don’t have to go back to something. So… Yeah, got back into racing a little bit. But… again, started having the accidents. About this time, I wasn’t getting paid when I was having the accidents. So… I basically had to stop racing. Which didn’t go down well with me. Oh. It’s not well, you know, you’ve got to met a living before you can go racing. So I saw my race bike, the Yamaha, and… yeah. So I sort of went downhill from there. Still pretty angry about what’s the thing to do with me, Jaden. Oh. I couldn’t go far enough with… college. No, no, I was so far. I said, “Do you want to go to London?” “I’d want to go to the Middle East.” You know, so I ended up doing the Middle East one, eventually. But, yeah. No, no, I was too far. Further away, the better. But… when I got away, all I wanted was to do was get back. So I used to do a lot of fritzing. You know, log books and one thing. Not that we needed them with the van at that time. I didn’t need them, so… well, eventually when I’d get into college properly with proper lorries, yeah. I was known as a bit of a cowboy. And… I suppose then I met Caroline. I never really bothered with girls that much. Well, I met Caroline at one of the twenty, I think. Er… Er… Er… Then… That was it. I was in college. I had a girlfriend. Erm… I don’t know. I see. I asked her to marry me. She said, “Yeah.” She always swears that she went to on a Ouija board two weeks before she met me. Not two weeks before she knew me because we did start to know each other at school. But only just because, you know, the inter-same class, basically. I’ve heard a couple of years. Erm… And this Ouija board, I’d reckon, should marry Sunday with the initials RNG. Two weeks later, I met her. Her initials was RNG. I’ve… I’ve… I’ve got no other than we’ve ever true or not. She always said it was. And then was happily married for thirty-seven years. Then ended up in all. Just jumped a lot under there. It’s up to you. We can go… You can go back to any of those things. Yeah, no. Yeah, I did that on purpose. See what you’ve seen. See what I saw with the problem was. If you don’t want to talk about that, that’s fine. It’s difficult. Talking about… That’s a difficult thing. See, I look at my story. And I’m going to forget things because it’d be easier if I was looking at it and thinking, “Yeah, I did this, I did that, I did that.” But then, you know, that can be got there now because that’s on my story. That took me a lot of assle yesterday. Because the phone was on originally when I recorded it, got stolen. And then… But we’d batch it up once when we were born. But then I didn’t know it was on my other one. My one that I’ve got now, or some of it is because I don’t understand all this class. I know, it’s sitting up there in the sky. So, just beyond me. Beyond me completely. So, you were married for 36 years, did you say? 37. 37. It’s a long time. It was. Yeah. Yeah, we stared in Beverly for a little while. At Carol Anne’s brother’s house. She used to rent it off him. She’d be married before, she had a little lad. Mark. So, I took Mark on his meal. Yeah. Then we had Angela together. And then we had Terry. About four years between eight-pawnable. Yeah. But that time we’d gone to live in New Bald. New Bald? New Bald? Yeah. In a council house, still doing a bit with all age, but I was doing it more, working for other people as a driver by that time. I’d go and pass me test and HGV. And, yeah, it’s for other people. No, nobody regular. You know, just like casual. I was self-employed. So, you know, I got a decent money for it, really. And, uh… Good times. And? They were good times. Yeah, it was. Life was okay. I was always full of mad ideas. I’ve always been known as one of… If I wanted to find something, I would be able to find it, no matter where it was. And, I mean, nowadays, that’s very easy. You get on the… Go on to Google and, you know, put in the late late ’70s. We didn’t have the computers. And I was at my friend’s pet shop in whole. It still got the pet shop. And I was like, you know, I was like looking at the animals and stuff. I’ve never thought pet shops was really the best spot to have animals. But that didn’t stop me doing what I went and did. It said to me, “Bye.” He said, “You can find things, can’t you? You can’t even know what to get out of things.” And so, “Can you get out of some of them for me?” So, I was like, “What’s them?” He said, “Red Nade Tarantulas. Mexican Red Nades.” I said, “I don’t know where the hell they’re coming from.” I said, “Well, Mexico.” I said, “Well, I don’t know where the world is.” “Yeah, yeah, yeah.” “I leave it where you said.” So, I went home, thought about it, went back to home, went to Central Library, got a telephone doctor, a directory of New York, while there was a million of them. And just come across this pet shop supplies, fella. Robert Rosenbag. Ranging wheel? I’m off on the pay phone. We didn’t have a phone in the office. Oh, yeah. No, we did have a phone. Must have worked. I was working for the people and they had to ring me. Yeah. Well, when we first went to New York, we didn’t have a phone. And people used some messages to people when you were in. Jobs I had to do. And they got on this Robert Rosenbag and I said, “Well, I’m looking for some Mexican Red Nades transfers.” “Yeah, no problem.” “How many do you want?” I said, “Well, I don’t know. How much I like, dollar a piece?” I said, “All right.” I said, “They’re all a lab, like, you know, when…” I’m not getting something that’s dead, am I? Sure, like, you know, when it comes to me, “Oh, no, they’re all packed up in margarine tubs.” I said, “What do you mean, margarine tubs?” I feel like little roundish tubs like that, well, they’re not margarine in America. And they’re all pretty, and they’ve got some, what did you have on the Saturn? I got one of those cotton woolen up for the moisture. There was nothing else in there that would raise. I said, “Right.” I said, “Well, I said…” “Yeah, well, right, I love them.” I said, “Oh, am I going to get you? Oh, am I going to go into England?” I said, “Well, that’s a good one. I have a friend coming here that says, “A fair party in here.” This is a funny story. I said, “Well, Manchester, what would I say would be sad, because I mean, he was out of the building about town.” I said, “Munchester.” So, right, he says, “Well, I’ll leave it with you to find a…” He said, “I can get him to JFK, you know, Kennedy Airport.” Already, I can package them. I just need to know who I’m going to give, you know, which Alfred agency you get. You know, he says, “I don’t deal with that. You know, that is you.” And he says, “You want some free on board?” I said, “Yeah, free on board, because…” Well, I didn’t know what it meant to first, but it told me. That means I don’t get paid for him until you pay the threat from me. I says, “Right, that, well, yeah, that’s all right. Well, you know, it’s… Yeah, so I’ve got the telephone directly, he’s out again. And I’ve got a fair threat, it forward is in, and stuff like that. I’ve come across one of the in-bant, in Manchester, called Benair for it. Rangam up, says, “Can you fetch me some spiders back from America from New York?” Well, I asked you, I might get some lizards as well. Because it might as well answer, because he’s got some of them that’s cheap. So, about some. So, yeah, that’s no problem, give me the details and, you know… What to do with them? Well, we worked out, you know, I had to pay, before I did that, I could get delivery. I’d go into their office, pay for them, before I could even go and see what I was paying for. And that’s how we got every onboard world, where it’s, I don’t know. So, I see, yeah, that’s fine. So, I think I spent about $100, and I think there’s about… 150 to the pound in them days. $1.50, I think. So, I re… I reamed Robert Rosenberg up again, I said, “Right, I’ve sorted out, Benair Freer.” He wants to go or so, so, I’d go and pack you up, I said, “I’ll take the lizards what you’ve been on about.” I said, “I’ll take them gatta snakes.” Didn’t know even what the hell I gatta snakes was. I had to send my wife to a picture to go and go and go and go and sketch a book on snakes, see what a gatta snake was. It could have been massive. Now, I, yeah, I said there wasn’t a big, big, big one. They said they wouldn’t be. So, I thought, “Well, I’ve got to make it worth. Wow.” So, I knew. This is only a few, about two or three days after my friend had asked me. I told minivan at the time to run a boat in. And deregistration. That’s 1966. What do you have? It’s okay just where? Yeah. So… I said, “I’ve heard a fan here on a rung Robert Rodberg.” He said, “Well, I’m happy with New York being what boat seven or eight hours behind us.” They said, “I’m dropping them off today for you.” So, you love them tomorrow. “Oh, that’s the honor,” says you know. So… So, the next day it comes. And so, it’s going to be, where it’s getting to Manchester for a boat. I think they said if I got there for two o’clock in the afternoon, that would be boat right. So, little odd minivan threw the family in the minivan. So, there’s five of us running a boat. Really, there’s little odd minivan. There was a boat jiggered like really. On the way there… She’d got the thing, I forgot. She couldn’t get one on Sparta’s. We had no idea, you know, all we knew was we wouldn’t pick up fifty tranchers. One people was saying to me, “Well, they’ll kill you.” “What if the guy we near found me?” You’re all going to end up dead. Well, I said, “Now they have somebody apparently.” “Well, you’d know the tranchers’ idiot. You will you, all in up dead?” Oh, right. So, on the way there, I had a bright idea. We’ll drop off at Rockdale, find a pet shop. Let’s see if they’ve got one on these tranchers, and find out what we’re good to get. Anyway, we found a pet shop in Rockdale. Why, I thought Rockdale… I don’t know, because of the bottom of Windy, I suppose, and near Manchester. So, my wife’s reading this thing about these spiders that I’m driving along to Manchester, Airpar. Kids are all morning, they want something to eat and drink. We’ll get something, when we get to where the aircraft are, the Airpar thing. So, there was excited then, never been to an Airpar, you know, but I didn’t really. No. No, I hadn’t. And, yeah, we found this Ben Airpar, for it systems, Windy. I’m going to try other kids with this, I say, “Hey, hey, hey, hey, got some worries, you’ll see a place.” So, there was food in me, kids, for me, and all sorts. I didn’t like going into… I wasn’t reserved, but, you know, when I was like that, it was before we got real confidence in going places, even though I did it when I was driving, originally. It sort of went a little bit, you know, when you’re dealing with your own money, although, like, $100 wasn’t a lot of money, it was still quite a lot of money in the early ’70s. So… Well, mid-sentence is bad this time, as far as it was. Yeah, so I now have prepared for these things, when they come with this box, it was still one very big one. Eighteen inches. Square, I would think, well, rectangle. It says, “They’re out.” Everything’s in there. Well, shall we have a look? They said, “Well, the end was all I suppose.” “What are the tarantulas?” “Well, you cannot make it.” Said to me, “We’re not opening it.” If you want to check your goods, you know, your pay does, you know. “Oh, good night.” “The lizards had got out.” So, I thought they helped this literally, in this box. His lizards just went, “Phew!” I love what they are, please. Not all of them, but… I don’t know, I think I’ve bought about 20, so I think we lost them all far. She’s never did that. We discovered, what was the tarantula? Did you get the challenge, aren’t you? I mean, that mackable, except for more. I’ve never held a lizard in my life. I mean, I was pretty good with animals, because… Yeah, I liked animals. I used to look after the calves and everything. So, anyway, yeah. On the way, but… I went, “Well, these red knee trunks are out, so bad.” The gear was steam, but… They can kill you, if you’re susceptible to… So, it’s a bee sting. So, they’re always susceptible to bee sting. She says, “Well, I don’t know. Have you ever been stormed?” I said, “Yeah.” The kids have never been scum. So, I said, “If they did go, then, they could kill us.” Possibly. I said, “Best thing they’ll suppose to do is get back to your bowl as quick as we can and go into all to Steve.” They didn’t believe it when I turned up. I said, “You know, I turned up at his thing next day.” Or, ten o’clock in the morning. I said, “Well, then things for you, Steve.” “Well, then, tarantulas.” There you are, what? I think this was the Wednesday after I’d been to his spot on the Monday. I’m sure it was. So, it’s only about three days. She said, “You want a tan to get them?” That’s a tan to get them. I said, “I’m telling you.” I’ve got your 50 red knee tarantulas. Well, this time I had a… we’d been into the box. We… And… We had like a fish tank, so we’ll put the… And we’re… And we need our fish in it, like, obviously. So, we put a lid on it and a bit of our bodice. And we’d put lizards in there. I found out what they like to eat, let us in our sauce and just… “Oh, I don’t know, I don’t know, I can’t remember.” “Oh, dear.” So, I didn’t set them. I left them in this thing, what was left of them, but Molt 15. So, I just took the tarantulas and… The gatorsnakes. Well, they were only about that long, but they were only about that thick. So, you’d get an handful of them, you’d have about ten in your hand like that, you know. I think I bought… I don’t know, was it? Twenty of them, something. Another one, dear. I think they were 50 cents each. And… They said, “Well, it comes to the van.” They said, “Oh, I believe you’ve got them.” “Oh, it comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It comes to the van then.” “It could be bad.” “So, well my dad had builders there. This builder fella said, “I could do with a couple of them.” “So I said, right?” “I said, “They were tenor each.” “I thought, well, I know what the charge in the picture for. So they’d gone from like a dollar. I’d got a farmer for the original. But these next another lot in. And I got a tenor a piece for, you know, after some of them. Well, what did that man do? He lived on an oldness road some while. And he went into a pub on an oldness road with these two tranches and lost one of them in the pub while they just shut the pub down. Because everybody thought this tranche was going to kill everybody. The cop was there and everything. So this fella said, “Well, where do you, where do you go from?” He just splattered out me and, “Yeah, the council come and road you this.” He cut up them here. So, I thought, this time, you know, there wasn’t that many there. I said, “All right, I’ll walk up many.” And then, just kept buying. So, I’m right. The next door enabled was all right. Yeah, that was a funny, funny job that. But, I never brought one lot of vermin’s tardics in. And I never do that again. Just stepped on top of one another. Oh, God. Well, the stops that stopped him when he made a thank God. And then it was so to get him up me a little bit. With that, I was going to go into fetching parrots in. I went to see a man who was doing it in Beverly, at the old parrot’s place. And, uh, where did you want to stay? Yes, stay to Matt. The man that had originally asked me to go to the tarantulas. And he said, “Yeah.” Because Steve was in with him with his, that’s how I mean quorum seemed for that today’s. Oh, wow. And it wasn’t good though. It was these beautiful parrots, you know, parrots, all sorts of. There’s fighting with one another and just we’re up here in wild. And then when the winds into get one there to get, I covered up with stuff and, oh, that’s what it’s like. Yeah. They were buying them for next night, selling them for a fortune. They made a lot of money. But I didn’t want no one to do with it. And I went off to, yeah, eventually a lot more to come on the license. So you had to have a bit of dangerous wild animals license for loads of stuff that you didn’t ever have to have. So I just said, “Yeah, I’m not gonna bother anymore.” So, I started to stop doing it. But I would just go off at a tangent like that. Yeah, somebody said, “This’ll be our eating quorum.” Yeah, well, I would go then. And, yeah, so then, I don’t really know. I can’t remember what I did after that. How old would you be about this time? Was it? How old were the kids by this point, I guess? They were, they were, they were, they were the kids by this point, I guess. They were still lit all. I think I would say it would be about two. So there’d be six and ten. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, hey, hey, hey. And your name is what? My name is Charlie. You’re on this tape forever and ever and ever now. So in a hundred years time, you’ll hear your barking. Shut up. It’s nice. He does it quietly most of the time, right? All right, it’s gone now. All done. All done. Right, go back to the slide. Get back in here. All right. There you go. You obviously. You don’t, you can hear. I think it’s probably glorious. Yeah, yeah. I think Mark will be ten by this time. It’s hard. I’d remember it. I wish I could look at me for it and read it all off there. I’ve got it on the phone, but when I’ve got it on, it’s maybe maybe a tornado now to go. Yeah, we can work out downstairs. It’s real small writing. You see, the real small roots are real big. If we download it, we can then send it to us. Yeah, there weren’t as many words as I thought. There’s 20,000 words. Still quite a lot. Yeah, because I haven’t done nothing about the, I’ve only gone up to when I come into hold. So when did you come into a hold? Other than sell-and-spide with… When I was 58. Well, not very well. I was 60 when I came into hold. Hey. Hey. Just… They’re not coming for you. Yeah, I was 60. I was 58 when I came out. We’d got married when it was 21, so that was like seven years. And so you came out when you were still married? You came out when you were married still? Yeah. (Barking) What’s there in my life? Looking back. I had everything. Morning. (Barking) It’s over businesses. Arresting with trucks, I mean, women and nothing about that. Yeah. Yeah. I should never come out. I should have just killed myself instead. I think it would have been easier for everybody. That’s my opinion. It’s been hard for a lot of people. Me doing what I did. I had two options either. Tell my wife what was going on. I’d already told the doctors. I was under the doctors for a few months before I came out to my wife. Yeah. I should have… Two options. Tell my wife I would kill myself. So I took the shotgun into the yard. And I’m not brave enough to do it. I shot a rabbit instead as you do with a shotgun. You know, I couldn’t kill a rabbit now. I couldn’t show a rabbit now. But you know, them days, it’s just like… Yeah. It’s like a bit of rabbit. No wrong with this. But I didn’t eat that one because I looked down at it and I thought, “Hell, that could have been me.” It blooded all up a lake. So then… Yeah, I decided to tell the wife… But not straight away. I kept thinking about it. I kept thinking about it. You are not very up again. You know, I miss it really, really quiet. Oh, yeah. How long have you been thinking about it though, before you went to the doctors? Before I went to the doctors, well, since I was 21. I knew at 21 that I was different because I got dressed up in my wives’ suspenders and stockings and miniscare. Because somebody said somebody left me with you up at your house. So somebody’s got to get dressed up in them days. That’s what they started doing. I’m not very interested. I said, “You have to do it.” So I did do it. That was the beginning of it, I think. Charlie, quiet now. Quiet. Yeah, went downstairs laughing and joking, people twanging in the suspenders and… Quiet, let’s see. No, no. I thought I was a woman. There was just something about the clothes. My wife wasn’t very impressed. She says, “Right, if I do for now, go and get them off.” She says, “Ah, right, well, everybody’s gone. I didn’t really want to check them off.” And then she said, “She demanded.” So I did do it. That was when I was 21. That’s an ex-sumption, you went into the body, it was when I was 58. It was brave. It didn’t get up me all the time. Because the years went by, it was more and more and more. Luckily, we’re driving lorries and everything. I had to, you know, it was a perfect excuse because I could have stuff in the lorry and I could get dressed. It just feels dirty now. It wasn’t for sexual things. It’s just like wearing the clothes. I just thought, “I told them in the clothes.” It didn’t have to have particularly mini-scats or anything, although, you know, I suppose, mini-sus. I’ve always been my favorite ska-t. It just feels dirty now, somehow. Because it was a, because it was hidden, I guess. Yeah, because I were doing “Beyond People’s Back” and… As most people, like cross-jesters, do with others, but lots of them never had the opportunity to come home properly. Or it’s all even. Yeah, very… Yeah, I suppose the mara think about it now. Yeah, I’m a bit not disgusted with myself. Confused, still. I’m confused because… It’s been about 11… 11 and 12 years now. And… When I first came out to my wife… I came out more or less as a cross-dresser, but… Then I just thought, “Well, I’m just gonna do this full-time.” Didn’t know what the hell I was on the boat. Didn’t know anything. I don’t know, I don’t know what to say, really. It’s… I don’t… I don’t regret how I am now. This is how I like to be. I love to burst off like this. I don’t know, I don’t care how much special you’re in winter, but… I like that I can wear this sort of stuff and… I can wear a bit of makeup. I never would use a lot. You were more to do than I ever do. I didn’t even put some stuff. I didn’t know what you call it. That’s how good it is. Stuffable in my eyes. I always use a bit of black eyeliner and lip-y. That’s all I ever do. But I’ve stopped doing my nails now. I’ve stopped wearing earrings. I don’t know, because every type of earrings in now, they just seem to have met me years back. Yes. I’ll have to stop being greedy and buy some proper ones. Stop doing them from the crash. We’re a quid for a boat, son. It’s cost me and my body. You’ve got me feet up through wearing stupid eye ills and nipped in toes. I mean, my toes are just… I do the docas now. Great. You look great. You were saying you don’t regret… Don’t regret… I am the position I’m in in life. I mean, I do regret the situation. I’m in with Peter. I’m turning up to be a con man. But, you know, that’s my own fault. I thought I was riding up for not to have a fault or anything like that. I wasn’t. He just worked on me, I suppose. No, but I don’t regret doing what I’m doing now. I wouldn’t want to go back to be a man. Because I just… I don’t really like men. They all look scruffy, horrible things to me. And it was never about sex. So… I don’t know. I don’t regret doing what I… But, in another way, I just wish I’d never come out. And I just wonder how I would obey now. Well, I would have been dead, I would think. But not… I don’t… maybe not because of the… transsexual thing. Because at the time, I would build in one of the best side-cow fits you could ever have for wrestling. Because I was still wrestling in 20… 13… 24… 14. And I had Rod Bellus putting this really lightweight outfit together for me. Which I’ve actually just sold. I’ve kept it all these years. Never finished it. But often, you know, this lad wanted it. It was a good ride, a good driver. So, we were at a great price, I sold on it. I sold it only a few months ago. But if I’d done that, if I’d carried on and not come out and carried on wrestling… I would have killed myself, I think. I was… again, I was just getting the hang of it. So, I was going faster and faster. I started slipping off of here and there. You know, I’d start slipping off of something that’s a lot better and a lot quicker than what you’ve… Got up at the time. It can begin. I wanted to build the Isle of Man again. I’d done it on so-as. I wanted to do it on sad cars. No, I’ve just decided… Well, I decided to come out. So everything got put on old. I’d say I’d still have the outfit, I’d still have it to finish off. And in the last few years, I’ve spoke to Rod about finishing it. And we actually got on building it again. And then something happened with him. He lost his partner. So that’s delayed it again for another couple of years. And then when he was talking about it again, I wasn’t really interested because I wanted to build it then for him to race. Because Rod Bell has a really good race at sad cars. It would be nice to see Bill well on one of these big builds. He built a lot of bikes, but that was going to be less… …last belless, so that got up to be built. It still is the last one to be built. And I also wanted him to have fun on it. And that we’ve done makes it quite light. It’s been a mechanic and just messing about. It’s been a glory of whatever, of being the driver or the passenger. I’ve quite happy been in the background. You know, it’s sometimes easier. Because when you’ve got to prepare yourself for a race, I’ve raced so many things all my life. And I said, “Well, missed loads of them. I went car racing. I went car racing.” And ended up 10 years, 15 years racing trucks all over Europe. Well, it’s always… The year I won the British Championship, the truck racing championship… …was 2000 and far. My friend, who now… …wouldn’t have anything to do with me straight away, so when I came out, he was called Rob. Him and his wife came to every meeting with us that year, whether it was in this country or whether it was abroad. Because we knew out when I knew I was going to win the championship from the first meeting. But there was only one little problem. Terry O’Doll’s been my mechanic, my son. And said he wasn’t going to mechanic anymore. He was dead. Federal public, he had enough. And even though we’d got him, I’d always let him race in Ireland, Mandela or Park, wherever we could. And I thought it was a lot, because he wasn’t young enough. He wasn’t quite… it had to be 21. I got the rules changed a lot. So it makes it better, easier for the younger ones to get into it. The year I won the championship, I used to look at my man. He said it would be a nightmare, but we’d set up for me. We were going to trap down to Dover in the Big Glory. Great big attic and lovely trunk. The next Williams racing Renault truck is the one that we pulled the trailer with. So it was a bit of a show stuffer in itself. And yeah, people looked. We’d drive all through the night, go on the ferry, then drive through into France, Belgium, Germany, get into the Eiffel Mountains. And it would be about… we’d just do it nonstop. It would be about 12 hours, 12 or 12 and 15 hours, depending. There was a little shortcut for a good check, but we sometimes used to forget to take them. Sometimes it was just easy to stop on them or away. But it was a longer way around, but sometimes I just couldn’t be bothered to go through the towns and stuff. And then my friends would be there with us. There were five or six of us in the cab. The magnums had a really big cab. It was all flat, flat, flawed, so yeah, it was really easy. And there was a fat me, wife, Terry, five of us. Yeah, Robin Cabell. I know, custom says, “Oh, you’ll have to look at one, one, make it said to us.” “You’ll have to look at how we can once it says the cab.” One girl, another one girl, another one girl. Oh, and when it marces Gary now, I said, “There’s still too much of this.” You know, it was just funny. Then we’ve got to win the trailer. What’s close to him in the trailer? It was illegal. Yeah, but I used to think that was me getting ready to rest. I mean, to think about things and wondering if every rest was different, although he was resting the same people he rest week and week out. But every sec is different. I used to think, “Look what Robin is.” I said, “All right for you. You know, you can have fun now, dinner time, you have to go to the pool and get some beer down here.” I didn’t drink water in them days, but I did like to drink some. It was always, it would have just been easier just to abandon the mechanic. You know, “Oh, I love the rest of it.” And yeah, I won the championship right here. And, but it wasn’t… I’d rest for years to win a championship like that. And as soon as I won it… Some of this is right. Yeah, they’re British championship now. Stop it. Stop it. Protecting us. It is like a protection thing, isn’t it? I might just… it might just stop for a minute or two. Once more sad and have a cigarette, I think. Have we stopped? You can just… It’s been a bit longer for this dog since the other night.
END OF PT.1
File Part 2.
So what question are you going to ask me? So this is Kate Jenner, interviewing DD on February the 20th in top colour, the studio on Hezel Road. I’d say 11.35. 11.35, hello DD. Hello, hello. So this is our second recording. I was going to ask you today for this session, given what we talked about last time, but also given our ongoing conversations, which is could you talk to us, which is going to be funny given what we’ve just been talking about. Could you tell us something about pub and club culture in this part of the air, in this part of hall and it’s a big important part of you, it has been a big important part of your life. Do you want to start from the beginning of how that works? Yeah, well, I’ll start from the beginning because I never talked about this before. Really to anybody. I came to hall after I got divorced, I bought a pub. They all been hotel and I thought, well, it was strange for me to buy a pub, but it had six or seven bedrooms with it being a hotel. It wasn’t run as a hotel, it was just run down pub basically. But I thought, well, there’s enough rooms for me and I’ll run the pub for a little while to see what it’s like. But I didn’t even drink in those days. So, I suppose that’s the perfect thing, a long-lived, it doesn’t drink and not take any money out of the tool for their own drink and everything. So, I moved in so far and had to close it down immediately, basically, because I just wanted to renovate it and while my license come through, I’d apply for my license, but I thought, well, go get renovated and we did a lot of work on it and made it, I thought I suppose what I did with it was I made it into more of a place for the whole community to go to. It wasn’t just all of a sudden a little back straight pub on the corner of a street, just that local community. It was for a wider community, which is obviously the LGBT community. And yeah, that’s the way I focused it and I think I got it quite right. People seem to like me. Once they got used to me, you could see what people do when they come into a club and “Oh, do you want to see the landlair day?” “Oh, yeah, I could wear a place.” “Day, come here.” And they started to step back a bit because the door expects a six foot woman with a broad Yorkshire accent talking to them, which was funny at the time. I’ve never took offense, I’ve never took offense that’s been called. She then called me what they like, along with 3 o’clock in the morning. But I did find it strange. But that sort of went off eventually and anybody would come into the book knew basically what to expect. I printed it bright pink. Well, the painting process took about three months. This man ripped me off really early. I had to get scaffolding up and out of this way. Scaffolding on the thing for three months. While I just painted the outside, well, the next time I got it painted, I did it myself in a day. It’s just, I didn’t know I’d written what I’d done, but yeah, another day I could have done exactly what I’d done. That took him three months ago. It had me far too far. It did work out better because I decided to replace all the windows upstairs as well. So all double-glazed windows in. So I used to scaffold him, multi-purpose. It’s strange. It took him all that time. So there we had a bright pink pub, so people was calling it the Pink Palace, which I’ve even got letters from people from the past office with Pink Palace. I never really thought of it going like as a gay bar, but because what I didn’t realize was that I was trans obviously, and I didn’t know a lot about what I was or what I was finding myself. I didn’t realize that gay men do not really like trans women, which was strange. I thought, “Oh, I know.” It just seems right. That really was the problem. There obviously is, because it’s too about a little bit like that today. I think it’s calm down a bit now. I can walk on Pestle Road now, and there’s a lot of gay men who say, “I did it.” Whether it’s because I have no exception, I don’t know. I think that was the start of it. It’s the Albion, and we had some good times there. We had some dance on the bar, and we put an act together, and we danced on the bar with a drag queen. I think people did enjoy it. I’ve never thought anything about me dancing. I’ve never thought I could dance. I’ll just throw this off the boat. It does seem to work. I enjoyed it. As I started drinking a little more, I started drinking, basically. Then I started smoking the tobacco. The sufficient smoke. That always was. I didn’t always smoke. I was in the style one night in town, which is basically a gay bar. Someone’s for everybody. I was with a friend. I had quite a few vodka’s about this time. Well, this time it was only about nine o’clock at night. I was going to go on till five o’clock in the morning. It was night that only just started. I said to him, I said, “Oh, you’re a Sikh.” He was a lot smarter. I said, “Ah, I know, I’ll just give you a little bit of a punch.” Sorry, I gave him the one. That was it. I started again at 62. I’ve been in the stop smoking for 22 years. I started again at 62. I was drinking and smoking. But it was a great pub. The star, the nice people. I was accepted in there, even though I had my own pub. On my ass, it was my night’s off or whatever. I used to go to the star. I was staying in the own place, but we’d be whichever. I accepted all over. The gear scene is… It is accepted in whole. I don’t think there’s as much trouble with people who were straight, not accepting gears, because I see it in the star. I started my own pub. And a year or two later, I saw it in the radical, which I joined after giving up the… I can’t even think of my own pub. – Albion. – Albion. – The Pink Palace. – The Pink Palace. Yeah, so, yeah, it is a multicultural world in whole, I think. They are very accepted. And I’ve said that for a long time. But at the moment, this is what, 2025 now, Mr Trump’s just come up with a saying that he doesn’t accept the trans in the LGBT thing, which I think is absolutely disgusting. To live in America now, as a trans person, must be absolutely awful. Because we all know America’s got a big culture of boons. And I think it’s going to lead to a lot of deaths. I hope not, but… Yeah, but I can also say that what he said now is I’ve been consequences all over the world. When I listened to the news, I can hear… I can hear just little echo-ins of, “Oh, I don’t want that, do I don’t want this?” And yeah, we’ve got to agree with this. But I just hope I didn’t quite have any of this. But I know, well, we’re not worried about Mr Trump. I forget about infinal. I just had to mention it because my idea was on the acceptance of in the last two months. They’re gone back a little bit because I can see that him just saying that has that effect on the world all over. How he has that power to do that, I don’t know. How he has the power to say he’s going to accept trans people, I don’t know, is he medically qualified? It’s just, you know, he wants to take over Gaza. He wants to make two million people. Two million people, homeless. Isn’t that what Russia was trying to do with the Ukraine? They went in there. It’s frightening. Really frightening. You know, to get back to how I feel about how things are and have been, everything went really good. I just started enjoying life a bit so much. But I’ve had a good life. I’ve had a really good life and books are then, and even now. But I just started really enjoying life. And yeah, a lot of it was because of drugs. I thought that was making my life better. And at the time, it seems like the Adamim, but I think, you know, I don’t have a detrimental effect. Well, I never seem to get the detrimental effect, which is beyond this permanence. Hi, all that’s Adam. So yeah, it was good. I’m trying to think when I realized I was going from one pup to another. I can’t think of their names now. And to get to this other pup, you have to pass a massage pile. And there was a girl still outside. She was having a cigarette. So she says, “Hi.” I said, “Hi.” I obviously knew what she was there for. I says, “Are you on your break? Are you a coffee break?” Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, I started talking to her really well and she started talking about all life. And I felt sorry for her. Now, we’ll talk for a few minutes and I went into the other pup. The income I’m not remembering now. A little did I know that that was going to come back, bite me on my backside. Because of my compassion for people and wanting to help. Oh, that’s going on a bit so far now. Trying to think of stuff that’s happened before. I just carried on and I never saw the lady again. Then I got a phone call. It was in the beginning of ’28. ’27, ’28, I think. Over the Christmas period. And it was this girl. And she was getting… She’d gone from having… Working at her… …brothel. What I didn’t want to call her. Brothel. I don’t like that word. But I knew she was a massage pal. And she had one of her own rented. She’d fallen out with the man that put the money into it. And she was kicking her out and she asked her to come and stay at the pool. Well, that was a big mistake. A big mistake. I felt sorry for her. She had her children. And yeah, I learned come there. We agreed what she would pay. And she was, “Oh, yeah, that’s fine.” One of our girls come as well. And she’d have to pay the same. And yeah, that’s fine. I never got any money off on dinner. She told her where I don’t know how to… She said she was doing the cooking and this and the cleaning. I don’t know. She ended up… She ended up wearing the place, basically. And I was sort of off my head most of the time. Shall I? Oh, yeah. It’s not a thief coming to get me. Yeah, she ended up taking it over. And yeah, that was a difficult time. That was the beginning of the end of the Albion, for me. In a lot, because a few months of this went on and… There was a very strange man. Oh, back to her a little bit. He was one of the… He just didn’t want to get on the run side of. And yeah, he ended up on one night that he was going to run in the pub. Well, that’s new to me. And by this time I had a feature being coming in from the Rhyme at Lova. And I think they realized that something was going on. So, the… Him and his girls, the girls, he come with a different lady. Well, not only those two ladies, and both actually related to him. So, there was nothing going on, but he always had to have this young girl hung on his arm. It’s a lot good, I suppose. I don’t know. Well, they’re nice enough girls. I’ve sloosed it on with them real well today, though. So, they’re still really nice. And they realized some things were going on and they sort of got it out. Me, what was that mean? So, they said, “Well, pay for all this, I hope you know.” And I still think to this day that is where no trouble started. And I still say that they knew what they were doing and knew what they were saying. And I think they were being told what to say and told what to do. Whether it’s true or not, I don’t know, but I’ll just do what’s at money on it. That’s how it was. And, yeah, so I spoke to Pete Marr and it was a strange thing I said to Pete once. I’ve just been, I’ve been out. I’ve come back into the bar. And I’ve just been to the chemist to pick up my pills because I sent you to check all pills for this that I knew there. And I just slammed them on top of the bar and said, “Well, that’ll keep me going in with the weight then.” “What do you mean?” So, if I didn’t check them, I’d be dead in a week. And I don’t know. I just think that he sort of took it literally. I don’t know why I’m looking back on what’s happened and what was to come. Yeah. Oh dear. My life. Tip. No, go on, sorry. What do you do? I was going, yeah, what do you do? I guess I was going to ask a question around people that are attracted to, you know, places like the Pink Palace or… The question was, “Okay, man.” Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know because we’re a… a… a… a… a… I was a… it was about 20% transcoming in a week. And 30 to 40%… Um, gay and… ladies who… had led to girlfriends. I don’t like calling them what they call them, because it doesn’t seem like a very nice name. So I will say, otherwise it begins with L. It’s not… not nice, I don’t like. Detrimental. So… So, when the rest was absolutely straight as a day, you know, not that people were gay or trans or whatever are straight, but they were straight in a different way. In my opinion, you know, they’re just… they’re just people. It’s ordinary people. So, yeah, I was so 50% of the people coming. And they accept it. Everybody accepted one another. What ends up arguments? Excuse me. We just got some… with everybody. It was just… it was good. It was really good. Um… don’t know what Marik has said, really. I mean, we have all the chaps coming in. I’ve gone in there for years. Oh… When I realized that… I tried and it was going to run their pub. They didn’t like it much, but I got on with them so well that, you know, actually… Well, I think they look forward to coming out, you know, I think they’re going to be a little ace of life, I think. [laughter] It was good. There was some really nice old gentlemen. And all the ladies, some very nice ones. And it was just a good mix of people. And it was… It was through me doing one thing or another that I think they were quite right at the end. And who were the… you talked before about dancing on the bar and the… and the drag acts and stuff? Can you just say some more about who they were or… Well, my drag queen… …they convinced the pub one night. Do they have a name? Do you remember the name? I’m just trying to… I don’t know her name, but I just can’t think of it. My… my head’s just like mush at the moment. What? I can’t even think of her stage now. I will think. When they were coming one night and then they said, “You know, we’ve got talking and people seem to like her.” And I thought… I thought she was a bit… I called the drag act “she” because to me she was a “she”. So I go on what I say, I suppose. If I see a female, if I see a male, I see a male. So… and she just seemed a bit over the top. But we may not understand in the sort of April that much. You know, I didn’t… I didn’t know. Anyhow, she could be in a few times and then started dancing a ball. And there again they said… they ended up… because this is before the other lady who were coming. And they said that they could do to move out. So I just come up with the idea, “Why do you come and stay here?” Oh, well yeah, they said we could do that and share her boyfriend. And she said, “You know, you can do beyond the bar and I’ll do the dancing.” You know, “You want to play this then?” “You know, we’ll just live here.” Or something. I can’t remember exactly what it was. Well, and yeah, so they ended up living there. At the time I had a trans-girlfriend, I was going to have a major operation in Thailand. And that was in the January. And so I was a bit of a surprise for her. I saw her off from her house because she got joined to Manchester. I bought with some of the friends. And I was a bit of a surprise for two days later. I ended up in Bangkok in Thailand to see it. You know, she had no idea what was going to go. Me and Thailand were in Bangkok. Great place, fantastic place. But I lovely people. Well, I was mad at them. I said, “Well, I didn’t get mad at it.” But they all seemed to say it to me. You know, they just… The other tell that I was living in, stopping them, because I got them to hold there for about a month. I booked it for a month, didn’t I? They liked me. And then going up and down the street up to the men road to get a taxi to go out and see my girlfriend. Yeah, you got a taxi off the men road. All these street vendors all got, “Hi, hi, hi.” And it was really nice. I even ended up going, you know, I was coming down and you want, you want, you want? No, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, they were really nice people. They were brilliant people. If I was going to live in a part of the world like that. Thailand and Bangkok is where I once ago. But I know there’s a lot more. There’s a lot of beautiful places in Thailand, other than Bangkok. Bangkok’s not really beautiful, but lovely people. I suppose maybe I’ll say I’m all over. I don’t know. But another strange thing that happened. After being there a couple of days, this gal come on to me a little bit. And I said, “Oh, you want to come and see where I work?” I said, “Yeah, yeah, yeah.” So I went with her and she was a fitness instructor. So I got talking to her, after she’d finished her work, you know, I was drinking coffee. And after she finished, we went into a bar and we went and drinks. Well, she wrote me off. Oh dear, this is just bringing back some… …stirring… …considering what we’ve just talked about. She said her mum was dying. And she could do with a thousand bar. The bar is about a bar, bar. It’s what the Thai mum is. So I said, “Well, yeah, you know, problem.” I mean, it wasn’t particularly a lot of money in English. I think they were about 40… …forty bar to the palm. No, I can’t have any. And it wasn’t a lot of money, so… …and I could have plenty of money anyhow. So I’ll enter it. And I was told that I’d been conned by the people in the hotel. So there’s a people I was looking for, this girl just disappeared. I don’t know why she went. I never saw my money again, but I never saw her again, neither. Oh dear, I’ve seen she have this thing in. I must have this… …I must have mugra over on my forehead. I just seem to get caught by people. Wow! Yeah. Yeah. That is…it’s a stranger, so I try to remember these things. So I’ve never talked about this part of my life much. I mean, there’s much more to say, but trying to remember it is quite difficult. But, erm… Yeah. It was a beautiful country. And in the end I didn’t used to get the taxes. I used to walk down the river, well, not on the river, I’m not Jesus. Yes. On the embankments. And what’s the hospital where she was at? Erm…and yeah. To just to get there could take me two or three hours, because I’d always say, “Hi, you would like coffee?” And most of the time they didn’t even charge me for it. I gave them something for it because I just felt I answered it really. But that was only like ten pence or twenty pence in English money, basically. Well, it’s lovely papers, so it was taking me longer and longer to walk to the hospital. I had to get the taxi back and I was sometimes been coming home at about four o’clock in the morning. It’s erm…it was nice. Erm… I know, the girlfriend she… She was allowed to out-mark. So…she says, “Oh, I’m a man’s senior hotel where he lived.” So, I said, “Right, come on, I’m going to jump in a taxi.” So, we jumped in a taxi. Up to the hotel. And she just took one look at it, she said, “What are you doing living in a dump like this?” That says, “What do you mean?” I says, “It’s great, lovely people. It’s reasonable money. It’s reasonable I want to be prepared to live to stop in there. I’m not going in there without you.” I don’t know at the beginning of the end of me and her. Yeah, she thought I would have just been stupid about it. I think she thought I’d come into a lobby show or tell one of these fancy… Again, Joanne, yeah, I think she was…she had plans for more money. But that never worked out for her. For once in the life…for once in this new life of man, I would have one step ahead of her. But erm… Strange girl. Yeah, I ended up going back to Thailand with her again. No, a turkey. To get her breast enlargement that I paid for. Erm… Would you know what else will follow while a week? Erm… Well, these people was Joanne and they’re part of the pub customers. And then… I guess I’m interested to know, like you’ve talked about, the mixture of people that used to come into the Albion. And then I see that similar sort of tolerance and mixture of people in riders, for example, of rainers and different places. Yeah. Would you say that’s true of…that’s what you see and experience of this area. Of the acceptance? Yeah. I think so. I didn’t know about when I went into the riders. I didn’t know how it would be because it was a lot bigger place than what I was running. And the fact that Peter sort of introduced me to people… You know, I felt like really… If the other liked me, the ones I’ve said. Because the meeting wants to upset Peter, I don’t know. I could be wrong. But in the end, yeah, acceptance in the rider club was brilliant. You know, I’ve got some fabulous friends. But not ones I can talk to about personal things, but you know, when we’re in the club, we can have a laugh. I just like making their day. Yeah, it’s just grateful. You know, they’ve had a good day out, they’ve had a good day out. It’s a win-win situation for us all. How do you make their day? What does that mean? Well, I don’t make it actually about dancing. And… There’s a lot of things I can dance. It’s a whole… I seem to have been filmed and filmed and filmed dancing. I don’t know whether it was the clothes I was wearing or what. I don’t know. I mean, yeah, I’ve never tried to… I’ve never exposed myself for anything. I do wear them in these skirts, but not as much now. Because 69 years old, I just think, you know, really should have shouldn’t have. But every now and then I will do again because I’m thinking, “Why? Why not?” You know, it’s… I actually feel comfy in my… I feel comfy in long and flowy dressies, but the problem with that one is… I mean, I love summer dressies, all flowery and all like that. But the problem with that one is… If I went walking a festival road with one of those dressies on… “Oh, I’ve got so many people looking at me.” Because it isn’t normal for people now to say women in… Even summer, in summer clothing. They all seem to wear just… Oh, this horrible drab, leggings and… You know, they don’t ever bother to get dressed up. And so, I stand out too much. Even though I like to have those… wear those things, it… It is a bit strange doing it. It is a bit strange. So, I suppose when I’m doing it to the club, I’m getting away with it a little bit because… It’s a club and, you know, I’m known as Jack Danson about. I suppose when I first went there, I started… I said, “Pray, I said, “Well, so I want so much to do.” I said, “I’ll get bored if I don’t have something to do. I’ll collect glasses.” “No, you won’t collect glasses, you won’t go to a glass of glasses.” I said, “Yeah, I can do.” So, I did. I did collect glasses for a year. And as far as I got, you know, we got to normally that way. And… yeah… I don’t think that, you know, the… Yeah, the did accent, the way I accepted them. But I was hoping we’d get more transferables coming to the… …foot we just didn’t… that just didn’t seem to happen. And… Looking back now… I sometimes wonder whether the management didn’t want it to happen. And… I can’t say for that, you know. But… I thought… (dog barks) Jelly? Why? Why? The intended bill of love’s got over. No, they’re not allowed. Yes, sir, I just… I was hoping we’d get more people in, just to introduce people to more trans people. And, you know… There is a lot of girls who have girlfriends. But… there’s not many gay men going. I can sort of definitely say, “Yeah, he’s definitely gay.” Um… that’s all, sir. I just suppose I was the other one. The… the… the accepted mate. Don’t know what he loved you. But yeah, very close. It’s… Yeah, the people of Essel Road accepted me. I remember walking in middle of summer one year. I came from my house in Gypserville over the fly over. And they had a miniscule on… uh… black tights. Uh… a sharp, croppy top. It’s when I weighed a lot less than I do now. Because this isn’t all fighting, you know. This is a hannier. (laughs) And I’m very annoyed that the boy do anything about it. But, um… yeah, I… I didn’t even think it wasn’t so bad at all. And I think I had some… I thought… I thought some thigh bolts on, I think. I was walking down Essel Road. And I had me… on top of her on as well. I was walking past the fish shop, and a man just said, “Oh.” I said, “Good God, what?” “Well, my next thought,” he said, “Well, you didn’t say I’d throw me an act, boy.” (laughs) Yeah, that made me, um… that made me think a little bit. Um… but that’s the only time I’ve ever really felt it. But I do feel that the foreign-era ladies are all dressed in black. They’re not like people like me, I don’t think. They don’t seem to do because they always seem to be staring, and then they start jibber-jabbering on in their language and looking back round. So, you know, it’s… So, acceptance is a strange thing, isn’t it? Are you ever fully accepted, if you’re different? Are you ever fully accepted if you’re just a normal, standard person? Because, you know, we’ve got a sort of multicultural society now. I mean, it just makes it so hard for everybody to get on, I think. You know, it’s because of stupid things that aren’t all over the world, and, you know, I think it makes it very hard. But Esselrod is good for being multicultural. So, I do think that, you know, it’s one of the more accepting areas. I don’t know those areas in whole… where… it would be more difficult for me to walk about. Um… I go to Beverly, which is my hometown. Every now and then. I live there for the first 20 years of my life. And… I’m not very well accepted at Beverly. At all. They just seem to have got… you know, Beverly just doesn’t seem very good for acceptance. Which is strange to have thought, “Well, that’s… it’s my hometown, so, you know, I can go into my hometown.” But, obviously, it’s broadened. It’s… travelled in size, quadrupled in size, whatever it is. And there’s a lot outside has come in now, and, you know, I’ve never seen anybody I know in Beverly. Except for one girl who works in a cafe, who’s been working in the cafe for the last 40 years. Um… And I never did it. Even the school didn’t know her name. So, I can’t say what her name was. But I was there a few months ago, and she was still at the cafe, the same cafe. Just near the bus station. Hmm. That’s… that’s really funny. I found just lately that… with things that are happening, you got… you sat looking back a lot of years and think, “Good gresh, goodness.” That was 50 years ago. That was 40 years ago. And then maybe we’re winning the British Championship, trussing thing. That was 2004. That was 21 years ago. 21 years. How? Where has that time gone? It just seems crazy. Charlie? Um, can I ask a question? How does it make you feel to… The first question, how do you make you feel, um… to feel accepted in Hassel Road? How does it make me feel? Um… Well, I can’t say that it makes me feel happy, but it doesn’t make me feel unhappy. And I just… I just feel that I’m just… a woman going about my own business, doing what I want to do, when I want to do it, I dress how I want. Um, I can go up and down Hassel Road and I don’t seem to have any problems with it. Um, I’ll say, “What could have problems if you’ve never went somewhere else?” Well, Hassel Road, no, it… it… I suppose, yeah, it makes me feel… it makes me feel safe. I… I don’t think I’d do what I’m doing anywhere else. Um… I don’t know, you know, that problem is, I answer my name, I’ve had everything done, and I feel like a woman. Uh… I… I… I was a trans woman, because I know that, you know, I’ve had stuff done that… that’s… that’s… that’s… that’s… that’s what I am. And, yeah, I just believe in the truth, I suppose. That’s what I am. I’m never going to be a… you know, proper female, but… it doesn’t worry me really now. It used to worry me, but it used to think about it more. I was transing myself a little better and… I’ve put so much makeup on, I think it looks completely worse. Oh, yeah, yeah. I must admit, women have a lot to learn, and… they go through their lives learning a lot, and… to look as good as what they do all the time, you know, what… most… ladies. That’s tough to… you know. But as a road, we don’t have so much of that, because… they just don’t seem to care anymore. It’s with the culture of the foreigners and their… their dark, law-vide and stuff. And then the second question I was going to ask you, which was, “Why do you think… has a road… has… has such a… tolerance or an acceptance? What do you think… where do you think that comes from?” Well… Those… those are really difficult to answer, because… I’ve only been on Hasselbrod now for just… short of ten years, and… I don’t know. Why… Is it because maybe there were a very close-knit community… when it was… the fishing industry was doing good, and there was more factories in the area? I don’t know. I’ve no idea really why they are tolerance. But… there do seem to be… it’s nearly average chuppa pass. They’re all waving and saying, “Oh, well… I don’t know if… don’t know where that comes from.” It would be difficult for me to say it. Because I said about the fishing industry, but there again, one of the strategies to redevelop Hasselbrod, the fishing industry… it got disbursed a lot, because the… you know, they got sent into the… like… narcole area and stuff. So… I don’t know. They didn’t particularly like that, but they just had to get on with it, and… as far as now it’s just part of their life now. But… I wouldn’t be very well accepted in narcole area. I couldn’t do what I’m doing in narcole area, even though there… a lot of those people do originate now from Hasselbrod. So I don’t know. I don’t know what it is. It’s just Hasselbrod. It’s just got something about it. It’s just… to me, it’s a happy place to walk along the road… or on the path to us. You know, I always feel alright, but… I know there’s other people that… have sort of tried it in there and been quite so successful. So… I don’t know where their tolerance comes from. It’s nice people. [silence]
